Cammy Benton, MD on Vaccine Efficacy and Risks, Flu Vaccines, Ex-vaxxers, and More

Content By: Ari Whitten & Cammy Benton, MD

In this episode, I am speaking with Cammy Benton, MD – who is board certified in family and functional medicine. Dr. Benton has spent many years educating herself on the safety and efficacy of vaccines. We will talk about vaccine efficacy and risks, flu vaccines, ex-vaxxers, and more

Table of Contents

In this podcast, Dr. Benton and I will discuss:

  • The polarization on the subject of vaccines (and what could mean to you)
  • The drastic increase in vaccination doses given over he past 30 years! This will shock you!
  • The truth about vaccine induced immunity
  • The one vitamin that can reduce death by measles with more than 80%
  • The truth about the flu vaccine efficacy and risks

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Ari Whitten: Hey there, welcome back to the Energy Blueprint Podcast. I’m your host, Ari Whitten, as always, and I am here with a new friend, Dr. Cammy Benton, MD. She graduated the Brody School of Medicine at East Carolina in Greenville, North Carolina in 2000. She is board certified in family medicine and certified in functional medicine by the Institute of Functional Medicine.

An interesting story I came across just a few days ago, an amazing article written by Dr. Benton, literally, within a few minutes of that, I had a call with another friend of mine who’s an MD, and the subject of vaccines came up. This friend of mine, who shall remain anonymous, for reasons I’m about to say, basically said, “Oh, you got to connect with my friend, Dr. Benton.” She said, “She’s doing amazing work around the area of vaccines, and really educating people on so many important threads of knowledge from the scientific research.”

It was literally within a few minutes of one another, from reading this amazing article by Dr. Benton, and actually being connected with her via email. I was like, “Okay, well, this must be meant to happen, this connection here.” We are going to be talking all about vaccines, and I think this will be a fascinating podcast that you all will really enjoy. Welcome, Dr. Benton, such a pleasure to have you.

Dr. Cammy Benton: Thank you. I’m really excited to be here. Any opportunity to educate them, joy.

Ari: Beautiful. The first thing I want to talk to you about is how you got into vaccines, and really speaking to some of the dangers and side effects and potential issues around vaccines. This is an area that is so– I mean, controversial is an understatement. It is so hyperpolarized to an extreme degree that people in your shoes, people who are MD’s, you have so much peer pressure on you to conform to the consensus of vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, and anybody who questions that is immediately branded a quack, and is immediately, their career is threatened, their reputation is threatened.

As an example, there’s a super well-known renowned Israeli immunologist, who for decades, he was an editor of top journals, and super renowned, amazingly respected immunologist. Then he started doing research linking vaccines to autoimmune diseases, then the community goes, “Oh, this guy’s a quack.” It’s like decades of being a top-level world-respected, world-renowned immunologist, is all undone the moment you start to do any research linking vaccines with anything bad, it’s like, “Oh, he’s gone crazy. He’s now a quack.” They’ve been very effective in promoting that narrative.

Dr. Benton: That groupthink. Yes.

The primary reasons why the vaccine topic is so charged

Ari: Yes, to the general public, especially, so that you have a huge portion of the general public who is literally, I mean, probably 50%, 70% of the general public, I’m guessing, they haven’t actually done any deep research on the subject of vaccines. They haven’t actually explored any of the research, and yet they have an idea in their heads, vaccines are perfectly safe and effective. Anyone who questions that, is themselves a quack and doesn’t understand the science.

Even though they have never actually read the science, they feel so confident in their view, as to say immediately to anybody who questions the narrative that vaccines are amazingly safe and effective and promotes or suggests that there could be dangers is a quack and is promoting pseudoscience. It’s really unfortunate that the sphere of conversation has become so hyperpolarized in that way, and you have so many people who are themselves non-experts, who have such extreme positions on this, and are so closed off to reasonable and intelligent discussion of the actual scientific evidence.

Anyway, that’s my overview of thoughts, but I’m curious if you have any thoughts on just the general, I don’t know, climate for discussion on this topic.

Dr. Benton: There’s so much there to unravel. Because I think I started this journey maybe sooner than six years ago. That’s when I really became more intense with my study. First, I’d like to say that anyone who says to you that science is settled, you need to run the other direction. Throughout history, we have a long history, millennia of when scientists come up with new information, that they are deemed crazy, quacks, and only to have actually really been right on the path.

They run into such efforts to quieten them, to silence them, and this is throughout history. This is no different. This is another dogma that we’re faced with. What I try to communicate with people is that we all really want the best for our children. We want them to be safe. As a physician, I want other children to be safe, I want my children to be safe. I think that within this polarized society, if we can learn to find our connections together, then we can actually hear the differences.

Starting out, I don’t care if it’s a doctor, or if it’s just a person in the airport, which I’ve had experiences with, but when they ask you about it, and it comes up, it doesn’t take anything and they have this visceral response. You can see their face turns red, they get fidgety, and they get angry. They simply cannot hear anything beyond, what about this issue? Whatever thing with vaccine.

Ari: It’s interesting, right? If you contrast this with, let’s say, pharmaceuticals as a category, just all pharmaceutical medications. We don’t see this kind of polarization taking place. Where people are either of the opinion that all pharmaceuticals, they’re all cures, they’re all amazingly effective, and they’re all perfectly safe and side effect free, or you have people that think all pharmaceuticals are the devil, they’re all harmful, none of them have any benefits, and they’re all just a bunch of nonsense.

People are much more capable of being like, “Let’s talk about the scientific evidence. Do some medications have certain benefits in certain contexts? Do some of them have potential dangers and side effects, where some of them even have death as a side effect? That they can kill you. In fact, they kill hundreds of thousands of people just in the US every year.” We can have a reasonable science-based discussion, whether you’re more of the natural health bent, and you’re mostly opposed to medications, hopefully, you’re reasonable enough to understand that, hey, in an emergency scenario, there might be a role for certain medications, and they might be even life saving.

Whereas we can also understand that people with chronic diseases of lifestyle, the solution probably isn’t just to load them up with a bunch of pharmaceuticals. We can have a reasonable discussion, but with vaccines, it’s like either you believe that all vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, or you’re a conspiracy theorist or a quack. We’ve created this black and white, totally nonsensical, total gibberish of climate for this conversation, and it’s just madness.

There will be people who listen to even this conversation, who won’t even hear anything that’s said, who will just immediately be upset. Be emotionally outraged that anyone would suggest that vaccines have potential side effects and dangers. Anyway, I’m probably speaking too much here. I’d love to get your take on this. I’m so enraged by the climate [crosstalk].

Dr. Benton: It’s funny. I just went to Israel, about a year ago, for an international conference on informed consent. I’m actually on the board for physicians for informed consent out of California since 2015. I went to Israel last year, it was funny, just to give that example, there was a nice guy from North Carolina who I’d met. He had been living overseas, he was a well educated man, maybe about 30, who we were on the plane, and sitting beside me.

He’s like, “Hey, what were you doing in Israel?” I’m like, “Well, I just had a really– Another bad experience in the airport where someone had just asked that question,” and they got mad and left. I literally was just trying to say, “Oh, my kid had a vaccine reaction,” and they got angry and left. I’m like, “At the expense of maybe making you angry, I’m hoping that you can actually just hear me out.” I went [crosstalk].

Ari: The person asked you about vaccines, or they just asked [crosstalk]?

Dr. Benton: They asked me what I was doing in Israel. I said, “Well, it’s for a conference on informed consent, and regarding vaccines.” So, I went ahead and started talking to him, and as I started talking about my child having severe vaccine reactions, this previously really nice friendly guy started fidgeting, his face turned red, and he was like uncomfortable. He started turning away from me, and I said to him, “Why is it that I’ve already given–” At this point, I’d already given him some studies, I’d given him some statistics, and what happened personally to my child.

I was like, “Can I ask you why you’re having this reaction?” He’s like, “What are you talking about?” I’m like, “Well, suddenly you can’t look at me, your face looks pretty red.” I was like this calm because I’m used to it now. I was like, “I’m just telling you about my personal experiences as a mother and as a doctor, and you seem pretty angry at me now. Can I ask you why you’re so angry?” He’s like, “It’s just are you anti-vaxxer?”

I’m like, “I want you to answer the question for me. What have I said that is so bad? I want you just to hear of my child’s reactions, and here’s some science, and here’s some stats. What about that makes you turn this way?” He says, “I don’t know. I guess you seem more educated than– You seem less crazy than most anti-vaxxers.” I’m like, “Well, let me ask you, how many anti-vaxxers have you actually sat down with and talked to?” He looked, he’s like, “I guess you’re the first.”

I’m like, “So, I’m the first anti-vaxxer that you spoke to, and I’ve not actually spoken against vaccines, I’ve spoken about my personal experiences with it. I want you to think, you know nothing about vaccines, you’re an engineer, you had this visceral, this whole body response, to me talking about my child’s experience with a medical procedure. The only reason you didn’t leave is because we were taking off in an airplane and you couldn’t get out of your seat. Right? Am I correct?”

He’s like, “I guess.” He’s like, “Well, you kind of know what you’re talking about.” I’m like, “Yes, I’ve been studying this for like six years now, and I’m very well-versed in it, and also personally.”

Ari: You’re an MD who’s been in practice for a couple of years.

Dr. Benton: I’m an MD. I was trained to give vaccines, I was trained to not question the vaccines. Literally, our training is, “Here’s the vaccine schedule, here’s the– The answers, don’t look at them. That’s for lawyer jargon. It’s a cover your butt kind of thing. You don’t need to really know.” They put everything in there. “There’s going to be some crazy anti-vaxxers, and maybe we should try to tolerate them so we can win them over more. For us as doctors, vaccines are safe and effective. That’s the easy part of our education. There’s so much to learn in medicine, we welcome something that’s safe and effective, and science is settled.

We don’t have to think. Thank goodness for something we don’t have to think about, right? Anyway, that’s our training. For me to go from that, just pure, like over and over again, no question, no question, and you– We are, by nature as doctors, we’re called gunners. We’re like A students. We like to be the best. We want to be the best in the class. You don’t want to be relegated to being a quack. Those are really the bad doctors, the stupid doctors. We’re taught this from very early on.

I said to him, I was like, “Instead of asking an MD, who naturally went through the regular training, ‘Why would you turn your back against your entire training, risk everything for your job, risk everything in the public, risk your personal and your professional identity as being a smart doctor, why would you risk it all?’” The money, I made four times my salary working in a corporation than I do now in my private practice. Thankful for every dollar I’ve loss because I can live with integrity every day. Why would I give all that up? Just because I decided I’ve lost my mind. [laughs]

Ari: Yes. Well, it’s obviously the only explanation, is that you’re just scientifically illiterate, and you’re low IQ, and you’ve been convinced by conspiracy theory. That’s the only reason that could possibly explain it, right?

Dr. Benton: Yes. I was an expert in vaccines. If you look on the Internet, oh, don’t look on the Internet, ask your family doctor or your pediatrician. They’re the experts. Until they find that I’m a doctor, “Well, you’re not an expert. You should be an immunologist or vaccinologist to be an expert. You clearly are not capable.” I’m capable of making the decision to give vaccines without any questions. No real discussion.

I can give seven doses of a vaccine in one 15 minute visit, and give proper informed consent, and be the expert, or I can study literally every single day for five years, and then suddenly I’m considered dangerous, and I’m not the expert, and I have to be an immunologist to understand vaccines. You see the doublespeak there? It makes no sense.

Ari: It’s worth emphasizing, I guess, a couple points. One is, all of medical school is four years. The coursework for medical school. You’re talking about spending an entire five years dedicated specifically to studying just this topic of vaccines.

Dr. Benton: Every day, literally. Every day, unless I was out of the country. Every day, I read probably 30 minutes a day, at least on vaccines, but after I was between jobs, in January of 2015 to May of 2015, I had the blessing of having this opportunity. I literally studied five days a week, six hours a day, just vaccines. Intensely until I started my– Then I started the next job, and then I would just have to study on top. I became obsessed with it, honestly. This is, I guess, where you ask why I came into this.

Ari: Yes.

Dr. Benton: It’s twofold.

Ari: I’ll let you ask the questions and answer them. [chuckles]

Dr. Benton: Basically, I, myself, had reactions, and my children had reactions, and then I also had a patient population made up of a small amount of unvaccinated patients versus my normal population. The unvaccinated patients were always well. I hardly ever saw them for actual sick visits. They told me about Wakefield, and I’m like, “Oh, Wakefield was put in jail. He’s crazy and he took advantage of people.” That’s what I was trained to believe, and that’s what they’re saying. I was like, “Well, these are their children.” I supported them. I was very curious, they were never sick. They’re always super healthy. It was like a seed planted in my head.

For me, personally, when I look back on my adult life, I had the tetanus shot when I was 18, developed autoimmune thyroiditis within the next year, then the hepatitis B series for medical school. I ended up with [unintelligible 00:20:44], another autoimmune eye condition after that. Then I got the Tdap vaccine in my 30s, and I developed recurrent bronchitis and basically exercise-induced asthma. There was a flu vaccine three years in a row. I stayed sick literally for three to four months at a time, just cold, after cold, after cold, after cold. I’m like, “Clearly, my body didn’t do well.”

That’s when I finally started, “Wait a second. I’m not doing well with this.” I still, at that point, did not question the childhood vaccine schedule. I had to fight my own fight with the corporation. That’s a whole separate good one I could tell you in a minute because I took this one up to the CDC. I’ll tell you about that one. I’m already in trouble with them anyway, so I can tell you all about it. When my children started with the vaccines, I was like, got wild and crazy because I skipped the hepatitis B vaccine at birth. Hepatitis B is transferred by blood or by semen. It’s IV drug use, it’s sex, that way.

Yet, we’re giving three doses of this vaccine to children under six months of age. That wasn’t on. “Okay, I’m going to wait till two months.” I thought I was being totally rebellious. I started vaccinating my older child so that at two months, she went from being the calmest child, slept, great eye contact, to hyperirritability. With each set of vaccines, she became more and more difficult. She ended up with neurosensory issues. I still didn’t connect vaccines.

I’m sitting here watching my child over and over again have inconsolable crying, fevers, and then her toddler years we watched her, she’s super able to learn, then suddenly she was not able to learn. Then her five-year vaccines, she had high fever, she ended up with strabismus, like her eye was off. She ended up with emotional lability, her legs swelled up, facial tics for several years, and she still gets it occasionally. Second child develops an autoimmune disease at two and a half, that is associated with the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines. The third child ended up with major food sensitivities and allergies, and ended up in the hospital with malabsorption.

I’m like, “Wait a second, I am an organic eating, health nut with an organic garden, and everything is clean in my house, why are my kids so messed up?” That’s when I started studying functional medicine and learning about genetics and epigenetics. I’m realizing, of course, I can’t say 100% this is what’s happened, but they have methylation issues, and mitochondrial issues. Some genetic things that set them up for failure. Then is it also my expression of my genes that were turned on as an adult with me having multiple vaccine reactions that then I passed that down to them?

There are so many questions that could be asked, but no one gets to study it because as soon as I started telling my doctor, then all of a sudden I’m that crazy mom. It didn’t matter that I was a doctor that took my kids for all these vaccines. I literally, at five years, the oldest is five years old, I said, “Dear God, please let her reaction be not so much that I cannot handle it.” Lo and behold, she had these big set of vaccine reactions. Then my friends distanced themselves, the primary care doctor distanced herself.

Ari: Even friends who were physicians?

Dr. Benton: Doctors. Yes, the doctors. They were like, “What’s wrong with her?” Instead of saying, “Oh, crap, what happened to your kid?” If it were a penicillin reaction, someone to say, “Does your child have allergies to antibiotics?” “Yes, they have a penicillin reaction.” They’d write it down with no question. If your child has a vaccine reaction, you have lost your mind officially. That was the first time I was ever on that side. At that point, I didn’t even want to vaccinate her, but I didn’t know I had the right to say no. Honestly, I really thought I had no choice, or she’d never be able to go to school.

I didn’t know about religious exemption. I didn’t know about the VAERS, which is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. It’s a passive system. I didn’t even know, as a physician trained to give vaccines, on how to report it. I didn’t learn about that till like two years later. Then I asked my other doctor friends, “Did you all know about VAERS?” No one knew about VAERS. I remember the RN who was in charge of our clinic when we had patients with significant vaccine reactions, only adults though, we never recognized the children’s.

She would report it to the actual drug company who would then respond back, “Oh, sorry, thank you for reporting it. We disagree with you. We’re not going to count this as a vaccine reaction.” Even though the hospital actually called it a vaccine reaction. It didn’t matter that four doctors were involved. Then I learned that reporting it to the drug company had no difference, and no one even knew about VAERS. Then suddenly, I’m the crazy mom, crazy doctor. It was the beginning of a big transformation in my life as a doctor and as a mother, and realizing that my children did not do well with standard treatments, and that I needed to seek care elsewhere.

I went from natural pass, and then going to say functional medicine. My children, I was able to recover them with the help of some really wonderful doctors. They’re healthy, thank God now, but they still have– My oldest one still happen to have neurologic rehabilitation due to her five year vaccines, and it showed– She had sensory issues, visual and auditory processing issues, and the child that came up perfectly normal and healthy, I watched her deterioration in her neurologic status, but I was trained it was normal. It’s normal to cry, it’s normal to have inconsolable screaming, aka encephalitis, it’s normal.

They normalize all the screaming and crying and these changes in behaviors, and then you think, “Well, is it just me?” I’m telling you these stories from a doctor’s perspective too, of how hard it is to change your mindset. It took me years of watching it happen to my own kids, so then when I had to– I used to do Special Olympics physicals for years. Many years in a small town before I left. There was a 14-year-old boy who was an arm flapping, toe walking, nonverbal, autistic boy wearing a diaper, and so I asked the mom, this is January of 2015, at the very beginning when I was like, “Something’s really funky here.”

I asked, I’m like, “Hey, was he always autistic? Do you remember what–” She’s like, “No, he changed at 18 months.” I’m like, “Well, tell me what happened at 18 months.” She looked at me, she looked at her husband and was suspicious. She looked back at me, she’s like, “He had his vaccines.” Like she’s almost afraid to say. I’m like, “So, he had a vaccine reaction or what happened?”

Ari: She’s afraid to say it because she doesn’t want to be labeled a conspiracy theorist and a scientifically illiterate [crosstalk].

Dr. Benton: She’s afraid. She said to me. I was like, “What was he like before? She’s like– and you can see her like, [sighs] “He would like hug me, and kiss, and mommy, and daddy, and giggle, and this sweet smile.” I’m like, “Then what happened?” He had high fever, and seizures, and he’s never spoken again.

Ari: Wow.

The commonly accepted logic around vaccines

Dr. Benton: I was like, “So, vaccines causes autism.” She was like– I remember, I’ll never forget, she held her breath and just looked at her husband and she’s like, “My doctor, my neurologist and my family doctor said to never say that again.” She’s this sweet, quiet countrywoman. I’m like “So, your child was forever changed by the vaccines, and they told you to never say anything again?” She’s like, “Yes, they said I just imagine it.” So, I go home and I call one my best buddies from residency. Okay– I’m not going to say his name. I was like, “Hey, buddy, I just had the most interesting experience with this family.” I’m sharing it.

I started telling him, he’s like, “Stop, Cammy, you’ve lost it. You’re going too far down this road. Are you becoming an anti-vaxxer? This is dangerous territory, don’t do this.” I’m like, “No, I’m just telling you this story about this mother and her son. I’m just telling you my experience and what she said.” He’s like, “Listen,” and what came out of his mouth is exactly what we were trained over and over again to say. “She must have ignored the early signs of autism, or she’s probably in denial about the early signs of autism and she wants something to blame it on.”

I was like, “She said that he was saying words, he was taking words and he was smiling and had eye contact.” He’s like, “Okay, okay. Well, maybe they might have something genetic that the vaccine triggered.” I’m like, “Okay, but that matters, doesn’t it? That there’s this risk.” He’s like, “Listen, Cammy, you’re just freaking me out.” I’m like, “As a friend, it says in the inserts that you can have encephalitis, which is swelling of your brain.” He’s like, “Okay, well, yes, you can have encephalitis, but that’s not autism.” I was like, “Can’t encephalitis create symptoms of autism?” He’s like, “Well, yes.”

I’m like, “Isn’t this just semantics that we’re basically incorporating vaccine induced encephalitis in as the name of autism, so we wash it out?” Then we create this whole idea that all autism is the same, which is not, but there’s tons of studies to show now, it could be related to inflammation of the gut, it could be related to autoimmune problems in the brain. It’s not just genetic. It’s not just you’re born with it. There are plenty that are just born with it, but there are plenty that actually develop it. Why are we not making this distinction between these two groups?

Now that we’re given all these vaccines during pregnancy, and these medications during pregnancy, are we not just normalizing that as a whole like, “Everyone’s got autism.” We’re not differentiating it, so that way it makes it easier for us to give all this stuff during pregnancy, and justify and say, “It had nothing to do with it.” Which, by the way, when I went in for my third child to have, and the doctor says, “You need your flu vaccine.” I’m like, “Well, it says in the insert it’s not proven safe or efficacious in breastfeeding or pregnancy, and it says to call the 1-800 number for the surveillance for the study. Are you going to call that number for me?”

She’s like, “Listen, if you want your kid to get autism, then don’t get the vaccine, but if you want to prevent your kids from getting autism, then get the vaccine.” You’re like, “Wait a second. You’re tell me if I get the flu shot, my kid is not going to get autism?”

Ari: What’s the logic there?

Dr. Benton: She said that if you get a high fever, which is kind of true, that you could trigger immune response in the baby, and cause autism. It’s possible. I’m not denying that.

Ari: There’s a possibility that getting the flu, and your fever while your baby is in the womb, could cause autism?

Dr. Benton: Right. Then I was like, “Oh, so, it’s not always genetic? There can be environmental influences in someone developing autism. Is that what you’re saying?” She did not like me, and it did not go well. [laughs]

Ari: Real quick, one of the side effects that’s pretty common with vaccines, as I understand, is fever. Is that not accurate?

Dr. Benton: Right.

Ari: Okay.

Dr. Benton: It’s considered, for most doctors, we were trained, and it may be true, is that that’s your body’s immunologic response to the vaccine, that you’re creating the antibody. Having a fever in and of itself, may or may not be the worst thing in the world, but my child, she had super high fevers, and behavioral changes, and she was just screaming, just inconsolable screaming for hours and hours, which I learned, years later, that is an absolute contraindication for more DTaPs.

Since I’m not trained that as a physician, I wasn’t even trained that there’s a list of reactions that have contraindications that my child had, multiple times, as a two-month-old, four-month-old, six-month-old. Had I known that I could have saved her from the later vaccines for the DTaP. I could have saved her from that, but because I was trained this is normal, I kept torturing my child, until I really got her some good brain damage. Yay. No. It’s crazy.

Ari: So many routes to go down here, but one thing I want to point out to listeners is, many people who are lumped into this category of “Anti-vaxxers,” it’s not just a bunch of– The stereotype is like, “It’s just a bunch of scientifically illiterate soccer moms who are well off, yuppies, who eat organic, and who have been convinced by this conspiracy theory narrative that all vaccines are bad, and who’ve never actually read the science and don’t even understand science.”

You are an MD that has been trained in this topic, and you ran a practice where you were giving vaccines, and you have received vaccines yourself, you’ve been fully vaccinated, and you were trying to fully vaccinate your kids. It was only in that context, that you started to see some negative reactions that led you to explore this topic with great depth.

Dr. Benton: It’s what it takes.

Doctors’ Continued Medical Education

Ari: Yes. I just want to point that out for listeners, that many of the people who are labeled, “anti-vaxxers,” are not anti-vaxxers-

Dr. Benton: They are Ex-Vaxxers.

Ari: – they’re Ex-Vaxxers. Even MD Ex-Vaxxers who were intending to vaccinate their own kids, or did vaccinate their own kids. The other thing is, let’s say, for the more sophisticated scientifically literate listeners who have explored this topic in depth, and let’s say their reaction to everything that’s been said so far is basically, “Okay. Well, you gave some anecdotes, but that could just all be coincidence, and maybe you’re ascribing the wrong chain of causality to these events. Maybe it’s just genetic stuff, maybe it’s just random, coincidental stuff, and none of it has anything to do with the vaccines.”

Let’s forget about all the personal anecdotes. What is the best science, hardcore science, that’s out there that has led you to believe that vaccines have significant side effects in many cases?

Dr. Benton: Actually, fortunately, most of the evidence is on the CDC website, the FDA website. You have to dig. You have to dig past the conclusions on the PubMed articles because you can find stuff in the body of it that doesn’t even match at all what the conclusion states. I actually went looking there. First, because that’s what I was trained, and sometimes I would piece together some of the natural articles. I’m like, “Hmm.” I’d actually go to look for the articles behind there to say, “Okay, I need to know that this is not just their own bias.” Because, honestly, I sincerely needed to know, after my children had reactions.

I was trained that these are safe and effective. Which vaccines do I really need to give them, knowing that my children cannot handle them? My children did terribly with them. I do terribly with them. My ex, their dad, he does fine with them. He’s never had any problems with them. Some people genetically do fine with them. We do not. Which ones do I need? I went in with that idea. I still didn’t become totally, I guess, “All vaccines, for all purposes, all the time,” by doing this exploration. What I did find was that there’s a whole world of knowledge.

I wish I could summarize it up, but really, you just got to dig deeper. You got to dig deeper and longer. What I tell people is like, “You need to read information on both sides because both sides have good points, and I see why both sides list their points.” Once you start reading some of the ones that really have done the deep research, like Suzanne Humphries. I think she’s brilliant. The book Dissolving Illusions is, I think, one of the most helpful books in understanding the history of disease, and which ones are treatable. She uses all good, just citations from references, from government, new data, from PubMed. It’s all very well-referenced.

You will never be the same after you read this book. Honestly, you’ll never be the same. Then you are able to find the connection to the CDC website, the FDA website. It’s just all there in front of our very faces, but the media, that 70% of revenue is paid for by pharma, that’s what we’re hearing, in my CMEs, that’s continuing medical education for doctors. When you look for free CMS, because who doesn’t like a free CME? It’s all sponsored by pharma.

Ari: Just two layers there that I want you to elaborate on that might be over people’s heads. First of all, what’s a CME? The other thing is, say again about the revenue from pharma.

Dr. Benton: If you look at all your TV shows, the commercials in between, the news TV, it’s all pharma-based. 70% of revenue for news stations are actually paid for by pharma. Pretty big. Are you going to be reporting bad things about drugs if they’re paying for your bills? No. The same thing with actually, even that supports even the medical journals. That goes deep too. The medical journals that are considered evidence-based medicine, you looked there for your evidence, the reality is that JAMAThe New England Journal of Medicine, all those people, all those magazines make money off of not us, because our– Only if we join the AMA, which I’m not a part of, do they actually get paid.

The pharmaceutical reps actually have to pay for each article and pass up to the doctors. That’s how they make their revenue. It’s not to hash out failing studies, it’s to show positive studies in the favor of pharma. Same thing, the medical journals are supported by pharma revenue. The continuing medical education is how we get credits to maintain our licensing. You have to do so many credits per year.

Ari: Hold on one second, Dr. Benton. I just want to add one little piece on the subject of the funding. Which is, there’s different mental attitudes out there, which one version of it is a hardcore conspiracy theorist attitude that nothing is as it seems, everything is some devious agenda that’s evil, and everything’s got some underlying thing that’s not what it appears to be on the surface. On the other end of the extreme is something that I think is equally pathological, that doesn’t get the attention that it deserves, which is people who, in the face of very obvious evidence showing that there are agendas at play, people still want to not believe there are agendas at play.

People need to believe that the world is full of only altruistic benevolent people who are always putting others’ good first before, for example, their own profits. This is just a very, very naive, and to put it bluntly, very stupid way of thinking. Unfortunately, one end of this extreme is termed paranoia, the other end of the extreme, I heard a good word for it recently, somebody coined the term trustanoia. It is the opposite mental extreme of people who need to believe the world is all sunshine and rainbows and unicorns and pixie dust. The reality of the world in other words is-

Dr. Benton: There should be [crosstalk] put in between.

Ari: Is in between. There are absolutely, corporations, for example, that are intentionally trying to influence the narratives, that are funding the media with the explicit purpose of helping to craft a narrative in a certain direction, and push people’s perception in a certain way. Advertising, paid advertising is obviously the most overt and obvious legal example of this. There’s also things going on like pharmaceutical companies paying politicians who vote certain ways on certain bills.

For example, Richard Pan, in California, who has been the major politician pushing for mandatory vaccinations of school children, and the elimination of any sort of exemptions, including medical exemptions for children has received huge amounts of money from pharmaceutical companies. This is not conspiracy theory, this is fact that one can look up in mainstream media news sources if they care to.

We have to be not on the paranoid, and not on the trustanoid end of the spectrum. We have to be able to confront the facts, and the obvious reality that yes, of course, companies that do trillions of dollars a year in business, absolutely do things to push actual laws in a certain direction, and also do things to push public perception in a certain direction.

Dr. Benton: They’ve paid billions, actually, in fraudulent charges. They’re actually convicted of fraud, they pay up billions of dollars, but for them, they make so much money, but that’s just, “Okay. Yes, fine. We’ll lose it.” They have more tricks up their sleeve. So, they make so much money. The surprising thing is that every pharmaceutical company has been charged and has lost many cases for fraud. Including Merck, who has made like three courses of vaccines. They have a strong fraudulent history that is [crosstalk].

Ari: In other words, there is– We’re talking about entities for which there is a clear history of actually being convicted, in court, of criminal activity, and yet there are still these kind of trustanoid types of people that want to operate in a reality where they imagine these entities that are convicted of criminal activity to be entirely benevolent and altruistic and only out for others’ good. It’s just so out of contact with the facts, and yet it drives me nuts that there are people who think this way, and who are so mentally unable to actually just confront the reality that, yes, these are corporations that oftentimes, put their own profits above public good.

Should you reject all vaccines?

Dr. Benton: I want to say two things in response to that. One, just real quick, just so again the listeners know, I’m not anti-medicine. Thank God we live in a time that we have research, that we have pharmaceuticals, they saves lives, thank God for procedures. If I had hepatitis B, I would want my child to have a hepatitis B vaccine. Sure.

Ari: Absolutely.

Dr. Benton: There’s a time and a place for everything. If I’m going to Africa to do mission work, I’d probably go ahead and want to get my tetanus shot because I may or may not have clean water for which to clean up my wounds. There’s a time and a place, but my child does not need hepatitis B vaccine. Just so you know, I’m not anti-Western medicine, I’m very pro integrated, meaning bring the best of both of everything, and weigh options truly informed consent.

Ari: Weigh the pros and cons of any specific intervention in a specific context.

Dr. Benton: Weigh the pros and cons. Because a breastfed baby on a homeschooled home farm is going to have a different risk factor than a child in daycare that might not have access to healthy food, that might– There’s all these different things. I have a different solution still than most people would, but still they have different risk factors. I really believe our government could do [inaudible 00:44:55] to help those, but they don’t really want to help the poor people either. It’s another story.

The other thing, coming back to the vaccine makers, is the fact that, and a lot of people just don’t realize this. I definitely didn’t know this as a physician. I vaguely remember learning about it, but it wasn’t in this context. In 1986, the Supreme Court passed a law that protects pharmaceutical companies from all liability for vaccines. The reason this happened was that there were so many cases of encephalitis, the brain inflammation from the DPT vaccine. That’s the diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus vaccine.

For 20 years, people were reporting this brain injury. Of course, no studies ever showed– It’s just an epidemic of coincidences. They don’t like to– Always like to throw it out there, it’s an epidemic of coincidences. The drug maker said, “Forget it. I’m pulling out. We’re not going to do this.” For the sake of public health, they said, “We’ve got to protect public health, so we’re going to pass this law to protect the vaccine makers.”

However, part of that law was to make the Department of Health and Human Services to have safety studies ongoing for the next many years. A couple of things happens there, is that actually, the Department of Health and Human Services turned out to not do those safety measures afterwards, that was actually won by a lawsuit by RK and Del Bigtree, which is there. Between Del Bigtree and RFK, they’ve done a really great work in digging out those, and doing lawsuits to bring out the truth. The other part is-

Ari: Just to clarify it, Robert F. Kennedy and Del Bigtree did a lawsuit-

Dr. Benton: They’ve won lawsuits. Yes.

Ari: – where they won the lawsuit against, I believe, the CDC where-

Dr. Benton: I know they’ve won the lawsuits against the Department of Health and Human Services. I know they were doing one against CDC. They might have won. I don’t remember. They’ve won a couple of good cases, showing where they really have suppressed information, how they really not follow the rule of law like they’re supposed to. It’s beautiful. They’re doing beautiful work.

Ari: They exposed the fact that those safety studies that they had promised to do-

Dr. Benton: Were not being done.

Ari: – were not done.

Dr. Benton: Right.

Ari: Got it.

The development of vaccine schedule from 1960 to now

Dr. Benton: Part of that was part of that safety. Because you can’t just get full immunity to the vaccine makers with nothing. They actually wrote it in the law, but they just didn’t carry it out. Convenient, right? Here you have, “Okay, fine. Now we’re going to have– Be able to do all these vaccines with no liability at all. We’re going to have the government and the schools systems to enforce it and chase after the people for us. We have ready-made customers.” In the 1960s, those people got about maybe 10 vaccines, vaccine doses total. Actually, at that point, probably only half the population even got this.

Actually, at that point, the wealthier people got the vaccines, not the poor people. Really only about half the people even got it at that point. Most people got the diseases, and before anyone questions, and they were all dying, actually 92 to– There was a 92% to 98% reduction in deaths due to vaccine preventable illnesses, and all infectious diseases prior to the MMR. Most people don’t realize that a lot of-

Ari: Say that again just in language that’s more easily understandable, that people, if you’re not familiar with like the MMR type lingo.

Dr. Benton: Yes. Back of the 1950s and ’60s, we developed a system with sanitation, better nutrition, with refrigeration, and we had antibiotics for secondary infections. So, complications of many different infections. We had many more options. In that time, before the first MMR, which is the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, was actually put out. It was already a 92% to 98% reduction in death from infectious diseases. That was all. Including those with vaccines, later on, without the vaccines. Like for instance, Scarlet fever never had it. They had the same decline that came with the sanitation hygiene antibiotics.

Ari: As an example of this, like polio massively declined before the vaccine even came into existence, as I understand, or?

Dr. Benton: The MMR.

Ari: Feel free to correct me.

Dr. Benton: With polio, that’s a whole other interesting story. You’ve got to read Suzanne Humphries book on that. That one was actually increased by the oral polio vaccine because it’s a live vaccine. That one actually mirror the rise and fall of the use of DDT, which is a pesticide that affects the nervous system. The oral live polio vaccine, actually we found were causing cases of paralysis. That’s a whole other rabbit trail that people need to go down.

Ari: There’s actually a study. There’s articles that have come out very recently in even mainstream news sources, ABC, New York Times, many-

Dr. Benton: NPR.

Ari: Yes. NPR as well. That have reported on the outbreaks in India and in some areas in the Middle East, Africa-

Dr. Benton: [crosstalk] from Africa.

Ari: – as a result of the oral polio vaccine, and there are actually more cases now, in the world today, of polio, that are being caused by the vaccine than by the [crosstalk] polio virus.

Dr. Benton: Yes. They had 42,000 cases of vaccine-induced paralysis in 2012, in India. Over 40,000 cases of paralysis. That’s significant. Exactly. Anyway, so we had this dramatic decline, anyway, of vaccines. This is actually prior to implementing all these new modern vaccines that we have. We have that group, and then in the 1980s, that was my era, and we had about 24 doses of vaccines total in our childhood.

Now, since the 1986 Act, they’ve tripled the vaccine schedule. Now there’s 24 doses of vaccines by six months of age, not counting the two in pregnancy. I’m actually now, without my adult vaccines that I’ve gotten due to medical school and training. I’m 47, so a normal adult my age would be less vaccinated than your average nine months old, but we see that nine-month-old as a danger to society if they don’t have more vaccines, yet we don’t see us as a danger to society.

Now there’s 24 doses by six months of age, there’s 46 doses by six years of age, there’s 70 or more doses by 18 years of age. People say, “Oh, that counts the flu shot.” Four states are counting the flu shot as mandatory, and on the rise. Gardasil is being added even though it’s super controversial, and it’s not contagious in the classroom, and they’re mandating that in multiple states.

Suddenly, there’s people that are like, “Well, I don’t want the Gardasil, or I don’t want the flu shot.” Well, guess what? You’re an anti-vaxxer now, according to their standards. The reality is, this is why we have to ask the hard questions. We have to be willing to put our necks on the line because if we have given our children completely over to the pharmaceutical companies, they can add as many vaccines as they want, with no liability, and our children taking it all.

Ari: I think they have something like 200 or over 200-

Dr. Benton: Over 200 that they’re studying.

Ari: – [crosstalk] that they’re trying to get added. I believe I’ve read that for every one they get added to the mandatory child’s vaccination schedule to attend school in this country, in the US, it is an increase in revenue for them of $1 billion per year. One billion, not one million.

Dr. Benton: It’s a trillion-dollar industry.

Vaccine Antibodies

Ari: I want to ask you something. You said something really interesting that I’d never quite heard put in this way before, and I think it’s a really important point. You said the average nine-month-old who’s very partially vaccinated at that point, they’re on par, I think you said, maybe more vaccinated than the average 40, 50-year-old, 60-year-old adult walking around today. Because those adults generally received all their vaccinations as a kid. I think that’s a really important point.

For everybody who thinks a kid who only received a few vaccinations is this danger to society by virtue of not being vaccinated against, not receiving all these different other vaccines and vaccine doses, pretty much all of the adult population in the whole country is in that same very situation. One other layer that I think is interesting to think about is, and please correct me if my understanding of this is not correct, but most people have a tendency to think that first of all, that vaccines are 100% effective, and that if you get a vaccine for something, that means you’re immune to it, and you’re just perfectly immune to it.

The second thing is that, as a vaccinated person, if you got exposed to that infection that, therefore, you wouldn’t get it and you wouldn’t spread it. The third thing is that if you receive a vaccine for something, measles, whatever, tetanus, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, whatever the rest are, if you received any of those vaccines that you got as a kid, and I got all of those as a kid, if you received them, then you’re immune for life. It seems all three of those points are incorrect on numerous levels, and breaks down differently on the specific virus.

As I understand it, the antibodies that we get from those vaccinations generally lasts somewhere between a few years to maximum, as I’ve heard, somewhere around maybe 12, maybe 15 years at the most.

Dr. Benton: Some last that long. Some will last. They’ve actually found some will last 25, 30 years. Like tetanus, they’ve actually found will last 25, 30 years. You have the older population, like 60s and older, they have the actual disease. They have true lifetime immunity. There’s so much stuff.

Ari: Let me just wrap up my thought here just to complete it. What I’m saying is, if that’s true, let’s say it’s 20 years, let’s say it’s 25 years. Let’s say all of those vaccines create lasting antibodies for 25 years, which they don’t, most of them create much shorter antibodies, but let’s say 25 years. If that’s the case, the average 50-year-old person is as non-immune to pretty much all of those things that they were vaccinated with as a kid, as an unvaccinated person. Is that accurate?

Dr. Benton: That sounds accurate to me.

Ari: [chuckles] That’s an important frame shift, for people to understand that it’s not just, “Hey, these anti-vaxxers that are not vaccinating their kids are endangering society.” We also have pretty much the entire adult population that are not immune to measles and mumps and rubella and tetanus, and all the things that they were actually vaccinated with as a child.

Dr. Benton: Let’s take measles. Measles is one of the ones with higher efficacy. Supposedly 94% of people will become immune after one dose of MMR, 97% will become immune after two doses. That’s 3% to 7% of the population that will not have immunity, that’s of a child, right? Now, of those people, that vaccination, the immunity wanes after again, maybe never, to maybe 20, 25 years. You have the older population, they’re aging out and they’re not having it, but then you have everyone between 25 and 30 to 60 that’s really not immune.

The idea of herd immunity, meaning you need 95% of the population to be immunized to have herd immunity, it’s actually already in and of itself doesn’t make sense. It’s not logical because you’re actually thinking only of the child population. All of this population in this age range, 98% of the population is vaccinated, but then you get to that middle third when none of them are immunized for it. Then now you’re having maybe a third of the people in these outbreaks, they’re not immune anymore. They’re adults. We’re actually leaving adults susceptible to a virus that is known to be worse in adulthood than in childhood.

We’ve recreated this reverse herd immunity where in old immunity, if I were to have something naturally, I’d pass out immunity through my placenta and through my breast milk, protecting the baby for the first year of life, then when the baby is older– We also did a better job of protecting the babies from other sick people. Then the child, who is better, capable of handling the disease, could get the disease, get– Yes, some kids died. Like in 1962, about 400 deaths occurred due to measles, out of 72 million kids. It probably is about that time of the time. Anyway, most kids do fine. 98% did fine. Then as you grow older, they actually are able to pass down their antibodies.

That little bit of ongoing measles or chickenpox that’s going around the community, that’s going on– That’s our vaccination, is that ongoing stimulation to the antibodies throughout life. It’s not until you’re really older that your immune system fails, that you tend to get the shingles, for instance. Now that we’ve gotten rid of chickenpox because that vaccine is so effective, what’s happened is now, our children are going to grow up with new antibodies, the deeper antibodies to pass down through the placenta and through the breast milk.

Their infants are not protected. That’s why they’re wanting to move in more earlier, and earlier, and earlier, because now infants are not protected.

We vaccinate them, and then they grow up, their immunity wanes and then they get chickenpox as an adult, when they’re more susceptible, but don’t worry, they’ve already started working on the adult vaccine schedule. Back in 2015, they said that the objective is for the adult vaccine schedule. Now we’re going to start vaccinating the adults. We’re creating lifelong customers to try to create this herd immunity, where we had the reverse and we have the herd immunity already. Herd immunity is really based on true infection and how it waxes and wanes in the community.

Now that we know so much more about treatment of infections that happen secondarily or, let’s say, measles, we know now that vitamin A, a high dose of vitamin A can reduce death from measles by 80%. 80% reduction. Why are we not hearing that on the news in all of these measles outbreaks? Everyone’s got to get that vaccine but no one is mentioning vitamin A, which has an 80% reduction in death due to these measles.

Ari: As I understand it, the majority virtually, all the people, the children who died from measles were children usually in poor inner-city type poverty circumstances where they were malnourished. They were not receiving, for example, adequate intake of vitamins and minerals, vitamins like vitamin A. If you are malnourished, if you’re a child who is malnourished, then you have a severe risk of dying from the measles and you have a severe risk of dying probably from lots of other respiratory or other infections.

Dr. Benton: Imagine for some viruses like this or like mumps, forget mumps, it’s even useless. If you look at all outbreaks, mumps is an almost always 100% fully vaccinated 27-year-old people, college students, they’re all fully vaccinated. It just does not create good immunity from mumps. Pertussis, again, go back yourself and look at all outbreaks of pertussis. That’s the whooping cough. They’re almost at 100% fully vaccinated populations. There’s a great CDC thing I have to share with you afterwards. It’s just amazing showing how there are higher risk for developing it.

That vaccine, like some of the others, may theoretically decrease the severity of your own infection, but it does not prevent transmission. The IPV, which is your inactivated polio vaccine does not prevent transmission. It theoretically decreases your risk of having severe neurologic reactions to polio, which only happen in 1% of patients anyway, but it does not prevent you from spreading polio. Pertussis does not prevent transmission. Flu does not prevent transmission. There’s many vaccines that do not prevent transmission, which is the whole case behind forcing every child to get it. It’s not to protect your child, it’s to protect those around you, which they don’t.

Ari: Yes, I’m glad you brought this up. This is a pervasive myth. I was alluding to this earlier that there’s, again, you have this common public perception. If you get vaccinated with something, that means you do not get that infection and you cannot spread it. As you just pointed out, there are many examples of vaccines that do neither of those things. They neither prevent you from getting it, nor do they prevent you from spreading it. The idea behind them, for example, the whooping cough vaccine, pertussis, is that it’s supposed to decrease the severity of sickness, but you can still get it and you can still spread it.

Dr. Benton: There’s a proof of that even for the flu. If you got the flu after the flu vaccine, it’s just, literally, you’ll hear this repeated. Audience out there, you’ll know you’ve heard this, “If you got the flu after the flu vaccine. It’s just coincidence. You already probably had it before you got it,” whatever. You hear the same stories over and over again. You’re like, “No, it made me sick.” No, it can’t make you sick. It’s an inactivated vaccine, but yet it’s an immune-modulating vaccine. It modulates your immune system. If you’re you’re modulating someone’s immune system, some people get over modulated, some people get under modulated and some people get modulated perfectly.

It’s the understanding that we all are different genetically, epigenetically, which means how you pass down your genes and how you express your genes throughout generations. We have different environments, we have different diets, we have different home lives, so we can all have a very different response to these vaccines. That’s, again, goes around to me and my personal experiences of being dismissed whenever you don’t do well with a vaccine is that we are taught to summarily dismiss anyone who’s had a vaccine. “It’s on your head. It’s the epidemic influencing this”

Ari: Who’s had a vaccine reaction.

Dr. Benton: Who’s had a vaccine reaction. They don’t tolerate it. “You must be either crazy or it’s a coincidence. You would have gotten it anyway. It’d been worse had you not gotten it. Good thing you got that vaccine.” That was part of my flu vaccine journey is that I stay sick every year. Then honestly, I’ll tell you this three years, I made my family get it because I was planning on having children and I’m like, “y’all got to get your vaccine. You must do this to protect my children.”

I was just there on the other side with everyone and three years in a row, I watched my mother and my brother and my sister all developed fever of 102-103 for a week, they missed work for a week, classically flu-like illness and their doctor said,” Oh, it’s just coincidence,” three years in a row that happened to them, I didn’t have that. I just stayed sick with colds and colds and colds and colds for months. I was told that that was a serum sickness by an infectious disease doctor.

I had to witness this myself, I’ll tell you, even before all this, I respected my patient’s wishes. Like, “Oh, it makes you sick. Don’t take it.” I’ve never been one of the forceful ones or hateful ones, but I have seen it from my own eyes was like, three years in a row is not coincidence. They don’t get sick if they don’t get the flu vaccine and now my ex, he could take it and never have a problem. We are just inherently different. Each vaccine is different, the disease we’re vaccinating against has a different risk compared to others. Our bodies are different, some of us have different family histories on immune histories, mitochondria histories.

This idea of one size fits all is absolutely criminal, in my opinion. We have enough knowledge on how to treat a lot of these vaccine-preventable illnesses to actually be able to re-stratify better the care to who really needs the vaccine or who doesn’t. Will there be an increase in measles? Yes, I’m not saying measles vaccine doesn’t work, I think it really does clearly decrease the incidents of rashes and by virtue, I guess, will decrease the risk of having death. The deaths were already solo in 1962, that you had modern knowledge and this understanding of vitamin A, imagine what you get it down to and we can save the immune systems of all these children.

In the 1980s where we had 24 doses of vaccines, 12% of kids had a chronic disease state. Now over 50% of kids have a chronic disease state with their 70% plus doses, is it just vaccines? I don’t think so. I think it’s the environment, the toxins, our poor diets, but honestly, I’ll Kool-Aid as a kid and ate sugar toast, our guys are pretty crappy in the 80s too. We had frozen dinners is when it was like creating frozen dinners. Now we have actually healthier options these days than we did back in the 1980s, it’s not entirely just food and GMOs, all those things play a role for sure.

You cannot say to me that tripling the doses of vaccines that are immune-modulating treatments have had no effect on this dramatic rise of autoimmune disease, dramatic rise in neurosensory issues, dramatic rise in asthma, dramatic rise in all these inflammatory conditions. It’s criminal to me.

Ari: Just to emphasize this in case it went over some people’s heads. Over the last 60 years, there has been a dramatic increase in the amount of doses of vaccines that kids receive. From 60 years ago, was it three vaccines and what, 10 doses or something like that?

Dr. Benton: 10 doses. The vaccine is 10 doses.

Ari: Now it’s- I forget the exact number.

Dr. Benton: It’s over 70 doses, so seven times the amount that our grandparents had.

Ari: Over that span of time, 60 years, it’s increased from about 10 doses to over 70 doses and during that same span of time, there has been a dramatic, massive increase in the rates of childhood illnesses, autoimmune disorders, and many of the other things you mentioned, obviously, obesity, diabetes, probably more food-related in that case.

Dr. Benton: Type I diabetes, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, just the sick is the new normal.

Ari: 50% of kids, you said?

Dr. Benton: 54% actually.

Ari: 54? Unbelievable. The point of that is for anybody thinking that the answer to fixing childhood illness is more vaccines, please just consider the overall trajectory that we’ve been on for the last several decades.

Dr. Benton: Try to inject health, you don’t inject health.

Ari: You mentioned flu vaccines a minute ago, and I want to delve into that specifically because this is what the article was on that I stumbled across from you, and I want to talk some specific science because I think this is a really fascinating piece that also connects with the COVID story. There are some layers of evidence, some lines of evidence that have suggested a link between the flu vaccine or different flu vaccines and risk of COVID. I’ve seen some perspective articles in the BMJ, the British Medical Journal, that have been pointing out an association between rates of influenza vaccination in the populations of different countries, like what proportion of the population receives the influenza vaccination, and the COVID mortality rates. There’s one military study, and I believe one other study that have linked flu vaccines with increased risk of getting infected by Coronaviruses.

Dr. Benton: A 36% increased risk, that was the Department of Defense Study. 36% increased risk of having coronavirus infection if you’ve had the flu vaccine.

Ari: One other layer is there’s also these other studies, going back several years now, that have found that receiving the influenza, what’s called the flu vaccine– I hope you will actually explain the difference between influenza and flu a bit, because these terms have been conflated in a really interesting way. Basically, there are many different types of viruses that can cause flu-like illness. We’ve conflated that with influenza. What some of these other studies have shown is that when you give people, especially kids, the influenza vaccine, it can increase their risk of getting other upper respiratory tract infections that are from non-influenza viruses.

For example, coronaviruses, adenoviruses, RSV. There are many other types of viruses that can potentially cause flu-like illness. That’s a really interesting layer of the story, especially given right now, there’s this big push that we’re seeing in the United States towards mandatory flu vaccines. What is the evidence, in your view, to support this idea that giving mandatory flu vaccines would be a good idea right now with the idea that it’s going to minimize COVID?

Dr. Benton: Now, the flu vaccine is– I have an interesting history. Again, this is what started my personal journey for the work, because the vaccine became mandated at my corporation that I worked at. I was like, “It’s making me sick. I don’t want to keep getting it.” Then they’re coming at me with a needle. I’m sitting down, I’m doing the research. I’ve got to go back and tell the story because it’s powerful. People understand again, where this comes from, this dogma of this flu vaccine, this full faith of this flu vaccine.

If you really think back, when we were kids, you didn’t have half the schools closed with flu epidemics year after year. You don’t remember people being terrified of the flu. Most people didn’t want the flu vaccine because it made them sick. That was the general thing. Suddenly, when George Bush went against Kerry in 2004, and there’s a national flu vaccine shortage, he says, “I’m going to see to it it’s on every street corner but to create demand, you must create fear.” Hence that’s when the marketing started. Indeed, it’s literally on every street corner now.

When I started digging into the data, there’s a Cochrane database and there’s a Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy that did a great meta-analysis. The CIDRAP, which is that second one, it actually weeded out a few more of the bad studies from the Cochrane database. Both generally said that it’s really not effective under the age of 18, not effective over the age of 65, and only marginally effective between 18 and 65, meaning about 40 to 60% effective, 59% on a perfectly mashed year. Meaning they have to guess out of the hundreds, if not thousands of viruses that can cause a flu-like illness, you have to guess a year in advance, hope it doesn’t mutate.

Apparently, some of the mutations is connected to the egg medium that they use in the flu vaccine that increased the mutation. They have to guess a year in advance, hope it doesn’t mutate by the time it gets around. In a perfectly matched year, it was 59% effective. The majority, and you’ve heard, over the last 10 years, it’s been about 9% effective, 20% effective. One strain may be up to 40-something percent effect. It’s like flipping a coin, whether or not it’s going to work for you to even prevent the flu.

It definitely did not decrease transmission rates, means it does not decrease the likelihood of you passing it on. It does not decrease hospitalization rate or death rate. This is a meta-analysis, meaning they look at all the studies for over 40 years.

Safety of vaccines

Ari: If you don’t mind me adding just one little bit, because I’ve read those Cochrane reviews. For people listening, Cochrane Reviews are considered the pinnacle of evidence-based medicine. This is as good as evidence gets. There are two good reviews. One from 2010, one from 2018, reviewing the efficacy of the flu vaccines in adults and in kids. As Dr. Benton just said, they concluded there is no good evidence that the flu vaccine decreases hospitalizations or deaths.

No good evidence that the flu vaccine decreases hospitalizations or deaths, which is the only really valid reason that you would mandate a vaccine and they also said,” evidence to support efficacy is scarce,” and this is close to a direct quote they said, “but there is good evidence to support widespread manipulations of conclusions,” meaning that they found evidence of among the studies funded by pharmaceutical companies, that those studies tended to manipulate their conclusions, to suggest that the flu vaccine was more effective than the data actually implied it was. Anyway, I just wanted to add this.

Dr. Benton: To add to that, CIDRAP also said, “where’s the incentive to create a safer, more effective vaccine?” We have followed the religion of the flu vaccine now for the last 10 years or so that we believe that we have to get it, you’re going to help grandma. What’s the incentive for them to even try a new vaccine? They can do the same old technology because we’re going to mandate it, we’re going to force you to get it and it’s not just by mandates, it’s from peer pressure.

Now that we’ve convinced you through the media, that if you don’t want to kill grandma, you better get vaccinated or if you want to see my children after they’re born, you better get vaccinated. We have created their enforcement of their vaccine for a vaccine that might be 9% effective. Exactly, what’s the incentive. Then as you said, there have been studies and you can find it on that, maybe we have to post the link or something like that.

Increased rates of upper respiratory infection, increased rates of hospitalization in children with asthma that get the flu vaccine, there’s increased complications from it that does not count when you look on there’s that vaccine adverse event reporting system, that flu vaccine is one of the most awarded for vaccine injury of any vaccine, like paralysis, Guillain-Barre syndrome, but fascinating that when you talk about it, it still must be coincidence.

When you talk about virus to someone who doesn’t believe, the vaccine event reporting system, it is a passive system, anyone can report. What has happened is that there’s the people who actually have vaccine reactions that report, there’s actually more patients that report because doctors basically dismiss us. Then there’s the other side who wants to dismiss us so that someone put in there so cleverly that they turned into the incredible hulk after getting a vaccine, just to prove that anyone can report. If you really use logic and common sense, most people are not sitting around with nothing else better to do than just report make-up stories.

You have to look for the legitimacy of this and you look for trends. You’re supposed to look for trends of theirs. There are trends and like for us, and this is like one of those a nice PubMed article about SIDS, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. In the conclusion, it says, “We found no unusual patterns to suggest that sudden infant death syndrome is associated with vaccination in early infancy,” but within the body of that study it says,” 79% of the children, babies who died from SIDS had one or more vaccines that day. You have to learn, you’ve got to look for patterns. I would say 79% of children who died with one or more vaccines that day is pretty significant to me. [laughs] The conclusion says no connection. All those are important that we look at theirs. We have to look at theirs really for those patterns.

Ari: I don’t know the specifics on this, I remember hearing something recently about it’s something like the vaccination has to have occurred within either 24 or 48 hours of the sudden infant death of the baby dying all of a sudden in order for it to be associated with the vaccine, something to that effect. Do you know the details on that?

Dr. Benton: All I know is that most people I’ve ever known that’s had this happen, they deny that.

Ari: They denied that there was an association with that, even though the parents will often say, “no, it was clearly in connection with the vaccine.”

Dr. Benton: No. There was a patient locally last year who the baby went in with a little sniffle at four months, got all his vaccines but that evening was bleeding out of every orifice out of his nose, his ears, his penis everywhere, bruised up, his leg was swollen where he got the injections, he’s intubated, he died overnight and they said, “Oh, it had nothing to do with the vaccines or else it would have happened at two months, not four months,” even though we know you don’t have an allergic reaction injection on the first exposures, on subsequent exposures. They denied the association with the vaccines and they dismissed the whole family, like, “No. That has nothing to do with it.

Then they did the autopsy and they found that he had rhinovirus, which was a cold. We knew he had to cold, a runny nose going in, but that did not cause him to bleed from every orifice. You see, that’s it’s the constant denial of what’s in front of our eyes. Also, I really believe those doctors believe what they say. We have to believe what we say because I think even these doctors that do that, they want to believe in what they’re saying because they’re not intentionally being evil or core or dismissing.

We have to believe in what we’re doing to keep doing what we’re doing and go on with their lives unless they won’t be able to sleep at night, which is the first why I quite too. I moved on. I have my own practice now.

Ari: Of course, you’re going into it coming from that frame where all of your peers, all of your authorities, all of your teachers have educated you that that’s a great thing and it’s based in so much science, and it’s wonderfully safe and effective. Not only that, you have this super strong cognitive bias. You have also the fact that if you question that, you know that you will be labeled a quack and potentially lose your license. You’re talking about a cognitive bias amplified by a thousandfold on steroids, that has got you locked into that way of thinking and has made it so the 99.99999% of doctors won’t even entertain a thought of questioning that.

Dr. Benton: I forgot. I was on the flu vaccine. Let me go back to that, because that was what your question was. I got sidetracked with that other thing. It’s still important to understand the mind processes of doctors. When I started discovering these studies about the flu vaccine, I wrote the director who created the policy for the mandatory vaccines for our corporation. I was like, “What are you basing your science upon?” He’s an MD. Keep in mind, he’s administrator MD. He says, “I don’t know but the major organizations recommend it. That’s what we’re doing.”

I wrote to all those organizations, the AMA, the NHA, the AAP, all the way down. I emailed everybody. Most of the them didn’t respond. The AAP actually responded and actually sent the email. “I don’t know about our website. We couldn’t find anything here. Have you checked out the NIH for the data?” That was the response from the American Academy of Pediatrics. “You don’t have anything, do you?” “Have you checked out the NIH?” That was my response.

The only data I got from all the medical organizations from the American Hospital Association, that a nursing home study that compared the vaccinated employees versus unvaccinated employees, and they found a slightly higher death in those that were unvaccinated, but it had nothing to do with the flu. The flu rates were the same in both. That was definitely just a poor, small say that correlation does not mean causation. I present this data to him. I present all the data to him. He’s like, “Listen–” He’s like, “We just have to do it. There’s a 2% Medicare bonus that we get for compliance, and we just have to do it. You’re going to love this. I’m already in trouble with the CDC. I’m going to tell you the story.

I was at a functional medicine conference in California and now we’re at a round table at lunchtime and just introducing each other. The doctor beside me was a senior medical official at the CDC. Of course, I’m like, “God sent her to me right now.” I asked her I’m like, “What do you say about the flu shots?” She’s like “Oh, it’s good. It’s good stuff. We got to get it.” I’m like, “What do you think about the studies around the flu vaccine?” She’s like, “It’s good.” I’m like, “Do you know the studies for the flu vaccine?” She’s like, “I guess you’re going to tell me.” It’s like, “Yes.”

I proceeded to her all the list of studies I have in my old article, her jaw dropped. She said, “I really would have thought that there’s be better studies. I just assumed it was a given.” The flu shot’s the given. This is a senior medical official at the Centers for Infectious Disease Control. It’s legit. She’s like, “You’ve got to talk to my colleague who was at that time the medical director of the influenza division at the CDC. I still won’t say her name. You probably know who it is, anyway, but I’m going to be nice.

I call her and because I’m a country doctor from North Carolina, I literally hid in the closet to talk to her expecting to be creamed. I’m like, “Hey, doctor, I’m concerned that we’re creating these mandates, and people are losing their jobs across the country over a vaccine that’s really not that efficacious.” I was like, “I went through the studies,” and she went, “Yes.” When I get to the end, I’m like, “Okay, rebuttal. She was, “No, no rebuttal.” I was like, “No, no.” It’s like, people are legit losing their jobs across the country.

You have to have a rebuttal. She’s like, “Listen, I’m in the military and doing what I’m told. We’ll never have a good flu vaccine. We guess a year in advance. It mutates. There’s just high rates on mutation due to the medium. She said, “We’re just never going to have it.” Just like the CIDRAP said, “There’s no incentive to create one better.” It just is what it is.

Ari: Just sorry to interrupt. The question is just to contrast what you’re saying, why the heck are we pushing to mandate a vaccine like that?

Dr. Benton: I have no other explanation besides the money because it’s definitely not the efficacy. I said to her, I was like, “Doctor, you as–” She said, “It’s not our responsibility. We’re not the ones pushing the mandate.” I’m like, “But you guys are creating public policy for us and we’re looking to you for the answers as you are the Mecca for infectious disease and how to prevent it. We’re looking to you for real answers. This creates distrust from people.

Let’s say there is a vaccine that’s more effective, why are we going to trust you if y’all are pushing this. This is so not effective and such high rates of injury, and we’re being brainwashed to have to control each other, to get the same push.” Exactly, now they’re mandating it across the country like our lives depend on it now with the coronavirus, yet there’s evidence. We already have evidence that it increases rates of upper respiratory infections besides the influenza.

Like you said, influenza as it is in one entity, even though it’s actually hundreds, if not thousands of virus that can cause this. Yet they’re like, “We got to get it.” All this is fear-based policymaking.

Unfortunately, they’re getting their information from pharma, instead of asking questions [inaudible 01:25:51] while I’m dealing with all these issues with our family and friends and now if we questioned anything in our family– In the last 10 years, this is all new in the last 10 years. Suddenly, family members, they will ban you from family dinners and our family’s cast out if you don’t want to vaccinate your children. It doesn’t matter if they had a vaccine reaction because now you’ve become the crazy family member that has become anti-vaccine. It doesn’t matter if your child has major neurologic issues is [crosstalk].

Ari: It doesn’t matter if you’re the only MD among the whole family. [laughter]

Dr. Benton: Thank God my family is like super cool. They’re like [unintelligible 01:26:28] first but then as I presented them evidence, my family was just all, “Thank God.” They’re all supportive of it. My clinic I consider to be a refugee clinic. It’s a refugee clinic for me, it’s a refugee clinic for my patients who had either had vaccine reactions or who are trying to avoid it because they’ve had a sibling or someone else with vaccine reactions. It’s my safe place. Thank God right now and I pray over it all the time. It has become that kind of level of religion that now people are willing to lose friends.

They’re willing to lose a family over it. Now, it’s going to pass the doctors and this whole idea, “Oh, you’re a quack. You’re relegated to craziness.” Now as to fail on the family level. They’re busy fighting that instead of talking to our legislators who need to hear from us as parents like, “No, you’ve got to understand. You’re getting your education from the lobbyists. They have all the money. I don’t have the money to give you. We don’t have, we’re not organized to have the money.”

Even I read an article, we’re apparently well-funded by the Russian bots. Now, that’s the new thing. We’re well-funded by the Russian bots. They’re like the reality is that most of us are just even me as a doctor, I make a fourth of the salaries they make, happily, again, happily, to be able to make this change, to be able to sleep at night. There’s nothing that incentivizes me to do this other than the fact that I have to live with myself. This is between me and God. [crosstalk]

Ari: Not only is there nothing, there’s no incentive for you, but there’s many disincentives-

Dr. Benton: Many disincentives.

Ari: -There’s any people who want to come after you-

Dr. Benton: Yes.

Ari: -and ruin your reputation and even take away your license, push to get your license taken away by you speaking out in this way. You’re taking great personal risk to do this and that’s worth pointing out. It’s what you said a minute ago that this has become a religion. It’s a scientific matter. It’s a matter of science that has become a religion with a set of dogmas among the people who haven’t even explored the science themselves, who are literally just taking what they’ve heard from someone else about what to believe, assuming that is truth, and then forming a set of dogmas and attacking people in the way you described based on their certainty, despite not having any literacy of the actual evidence. It’s just the pinnacle of absurdity to have a large part of the population walking around like that.

Dr. Benton: What they don’t realize that if they could just have the conversation again, meet in the middle, those who really want more people vaccinated, I think would just listen to the parents and understand and trust them. They can gain their trust. These parents are like, “Wow, yes, your kid did have this. Maybe I should look into it and treat vaccine injury as they would as a penicillin reaction, as a medication reaction and take away the emotion out of it, and put the science back into it. Science should not create this kind of emotion. [unintelligible 01:29:40] so terrified to actually entertain the possibility that someone’s not tolerating this. They can actually really improve the vaccination rates if they could just show that they are listening and caring for that family but there’s just that divide.

Potential concerns on the COVID vaccine

Ari: There’s a million more questions I want to ask you. I want to talk specifics on efficacy of specific vaccines. Maybe we’ll have to do a part two, because I know you got to run to have dinner with your kids. I want to wrap up with a couple of things. One is if you just have any final thoughts on the flu vaccine in relationship to COVID, do you expect the flu vaccine and the flu vaccine mandates that are going on this big push, or mandates or not, there’s a big push to get people to do the flu vaccine with the idea that minimizing the influenza burden is going to translate into minimizing the COVID burden, which is absurd when you think that the influenza vaccine doesn’t even minimize the influenza burden to a significant degree that-

Dr. Benton: Pretty impressive. Magical thinking.

Ari: -and there’s evidence that it increases potential risk of non-influenza viruses. The whole thinking just seems crazy to me. Do you think that there will be over harm created by the push for flu vaccines right now?

Dr. Benton: First, I’m obviously biased at this point because exactly for all the things that we’ve said. We know that for a fair amount of people that it alters their immune system for the worse. Even down to paralysis. Guillain-Barre syndrome is absolutely connected. I don’t care what doctors will tell me, “Oh, it’s always coincidence.” No. We know it’s connected. There’s so many cases awarded annually for the Guillain-Barre syndrome, which is a paralysis due to the vaccine. Like you’re paralyzed. You can’t walk and you may die from it.

I think people out of fear are more likely to go, but I will say I’m hoping that what this year has done from coronavirus has made a lot more people question what they’re hearing and it’s still creating that deeper divide, it’s either that side that says, “Oh no, you got to get that. We’re going to mandate the coronavirus vaccine as soon as it comes and everyone who works for me is going to have to have it or they got to leave their job.” You got that camp, and you got the rest of us are like, “I’m not taking a fast track vaccine.

Even Paul Offit, who is one of the most pro-vaccine doctors I’ve ever known of is warning against the coronavirus vaccine. He says it’s dangerous. He said this rate of this frenzy related to this is not warranted. You combine that with already an impaired immune system by my experience of what I’ve read and the patients I have seen, that combination I think it’s adding fuel to the fire. We don’t even know what’s going to happen with the coronavirus vaccine.

Ari: Just real quick, I want to add, I’ve been following Paul Offit real closely. I’ve listened to multiple interviews with him in the last few months. One thing that he said in a recent interview is quoted in the New York Times saying is, talking about the fact that, and it’s really interesting right now, there’s never been more attention in the general public on vaccines. There’s never been a more compelling reason to take a vaccine. We have this pandemic that’s a deadly pandemic, that’s killing lots of people. It’s on the news non-stop how many people it’s killing on a daily basis. We’re hearing it hours and hours and hours in the in the media just every day non-stop.

Yet, despite there, it never being a more compelling reason to take vaccines, because there’s so much attention been put on this and so much scrutiny and so much talk of it and so much education that’s happening about the process of developing vaccines and how safety and efficacy are testing. Shockingly, the proportion of the American public that will take a vaccine or that says they’ll take the COVID vaccine when it comes out is only like 40% of the population right now.

Dr. Paul Offit was commenting on this and he said, “You know when we consider everything you just said when we consider the normal timelines for development of a vaccine, the potential dangers of rushing a vaccine and the fact that he said the evidence that would lead to me making the decision to get a vaccine, the safety and efficacy research that would make me determine this is a good vaccine to get does not exist. He said, “I would even put myself and my family in the category of not sure, I will take this vaccine,” which is a pretty amazing statement from one of the world’s most pro-vaccine people.

Dr. Benton: It should be just an amazing warning to everyone that this guy of all people, this guy has talked about going to the Temple of Vaccinia which exists, apparently, by the way. He’s one of those and he says no to this. Again, you add in the flu vaccine, that I’ve seen some pretty devastating things happen with altering your immune system with this rushed vaccine, which, again, the fastest vaccine to market in history was four years.

This mRNA vaccine has failed multiple times, they’ve scrapped it multiple times due to the dangers associated with it. It’s a risky vaccine for a virus that– I’m not trying to diminish the severity of the coronavirus, but still there’s a 99.6% or more survival rate. There are people in long-term symptoms. I’m not saying it’s benign, whatever, so I don’t care what side you’re on. Either way, 99.6% or more people are going to survive this virus. The risk does not support me pushing this vaccine on myself or my kids and over my dead body, God forbid, would my kids ever get vaccinated for this vaccine and nor will they actually get the flu vaccine either.

I speak Spanish so I can move to Spain if I have to.

Ari: There you go.

Dr. Benton: In the meantime, I’m fighting so hard, because I love my country and I’m trying to stay. I’m trying to fight for everyone else to stay. This is why I’m on the physicians for informed consent and we’re active across the country. I’ve traveled, like I said, to Israel even trying to work with other countries to figure out how can we turn this tide to protect us and find some good scientific integrity and we can find that happy medium.

We know so much about genetics and epigenetics and the environment and treatments that we can make this really personalized medicine. We have that option. If we can take the money out of it. Until we take the money out of it, and we take out that liability– As long as that liability laws there that they are fully immune to liability, it’s never going to happen.

Ari: I want to wrap up with well, two things. One is I want to put a list on the podcast page for this episode of a whole bunch of research. We’ve made reference to a bunch of studies, for example, flu vaccines, increasing risk of coronavirus infections, the Department of Defense study, the other studies showing increased risk of non-influenza, upper respiratory tract infections in people who are vaccinated with the flu vaccine.

Things like that, we’re going to put it on the podcast page for this episode, which will be at the and it’s C-A-M-M-Y dash B-E-N-T-O-N, Cammy Benton. We’re going to put that there. Dr. Benton, are there any other specific studies that you want to refer to as far as like for people who are interested in exploring? Let’s say there are people who are listening to this that came into this episode what we’re describing earlier thinking, “Anybody who is opposed to vaccinations is a quack. They don’t know any science. They don’t know what they’re talking about.” Let’s say they’re now open to learning a bit more about this.

Are there any specific studies or resources that you would point them to learn more about the scientific research that has shown links between vaccinations and for example, the stuff we refer to with the flu vaccine, or Yehuda Schoenfeld- I’ll actually mention Yehuda Schoenfeld. Dr. Yehuda Schoenfeld is an Israeli immunologist, super well-respected guy. He’s written a medical textbook. It’s not for laypeople. It’s for medical professionals, but highly recommend it called Vaccines and Autoimmunity, talking about a whole bunch of the research that has linked vaccinations with certain autoimmune diseases. Are there any other specific studies or resources that you want to link people to who are interested in exploring more on this topic?

Dr. Benton: Yes. There’s too many studies to list, but there’s a couple of books that I love the most. The first one is a Tale of Two Sides and that’s really geared towards your average person. You’re not too medical, so it’s easy to understand. It’s easy to follow, and he really does. It’s written by John Philip Ryan, which actually turned out to be Bob’s Sears. He actually came and he said, “Okay, it was me.” Bob Sears is great. He’s a pediatrician who is an expert in vaccines.

The beauty of this book is that it’s written in a very readable language, it’s not overwhelming, and it really talks about what’s your risk of this disease, “If you get this disease, what’s the risk that you’re going to die from it? Is there a treatment for it? Here’s the vaccine. How has it been studied? Why was it implemented?” It’s done in a way that it feels non-threatening, it’s not going to make you feel guilty about stuff, it’s just an easy read. I love it. All of his references are put on to his website, so you don’t feel like you’re reading a study.

This is really for those people that, as I can’t handle anything too scientific. It’s written as a story, so you can really connect to it, and it just makes sense in that way. It’s a beautifully written book, one of my favorites. Dissolving Illusions by Suzanne Humphries is, again, fantastic because it goes into the history, because we’re told one thing. What really happened? When you learn this stuff- and there’s actually really references and citations to support this- you will never be forever the same, honestly, you’ll never be the same.

The Vaccine-Friendly Plan, I like it because it’s a very moderate view, it’s good pros and cons, and it’s very much in the middle for the people who are like, “I’m not ready to go all out on the other end.”

Ari: Yes, I have that one. Of the three you mentioned, that’s the only one that I have and I’ve [crosstalk].

Dr. Benton: More aggressive than I personally would do. If I were to vaccinate a kid, I’ll do one at a time, not that many. I think you would probably agree with that. The cool thing about Paul Thomas, MD, he got a lot of flack because he actually looked into his own clinic, had 13,000 people, and divided it into those with a CDC schedule, his vaccine-friendly plan, and then the unvaccinated plan.

Then, he found such a stark difference between the three groups. As you could imagine, the more vaccines, the more diseases, auto-immune, ear infections, autism, everything. He got in trouble by the Oregon Medical Board, they came out investigating him [unintelligible 01:41:25]. He fought hard with the medical board. They sent in a third-party person to verify the data, and they did, he won.

Ari: Wow.

Dr. Benton: It’s fascinating to actually not just read the book, but then read the data beyond about his studies because it probably would even support what he put forth in this book. It still helps people, I think, on a more moderate approach than what the current schedule is.

Then, there’s the Vaccine Epidemic by Mary Holland. She’s a lawyer. It’s a very interesting history of the politics behind it, the laws behind it. Those are different perspectives. It depends on what you’re looking for. If you have time to read all of them, I think it’s great. The easiest one for your average person to read would be A Tale of Two Sides, I think, by John Phillip Ryan.

Ari: Beautiful. Dr. Benton, I almost want to do a part two because there’s so much stuff I know we could still talk about. I almost want to ask you, do you have any PowerPoint slides where you’ve put together the actual screenshots of these studies and stuff like that? This could either be just you or it could be me on there with you, but I would love to have you actually presenting a lot of the research on this topic because, again, there’s this narrative that, “There’s no science to show that vaccines have any dangers.”

As you and I both know, because I’ve studied this quite thoroughly as well, there absolutely is, a whole bunch of research that clearly shows it exists in the scientific literature. We don’t have to talk just anecdotes and appeals to certain ideas, we can actually talk just, “Here’s the scientific evidence that shows the potential risks here.” Do you have anything like that and would you be willing to do a presentation?

Dr. Benton: Yes. I would say my presentation is geared towards people who have some understanding of the controversy and more to help their spouses understand. It’s kind of back to the basics. I would not say it’s meant for medical professionals because, honestly, I think there’s more we could do for them. This is for your average person who genuinely is like, “What’s the big deal? What’s the controversy?” “Here’s the data. Here’s the current vaccine schedule. Here’s some of the risks.” I can show it to you. I’d be happy to show you what I did. I do it for my groups of families that just want to come in and say, “What am I supposed to do next?” It’s just to give them a good foundation of questions to start. It starts the questioning of everything.

Ari: Beautiful. Dr. Benton, this has been phenomenal. I’m so glad to connect with you, and I’m so glad I found your work, and I was introduced to you by a mutual friend of ours. This has been really a pleasure, and I look forward to, hopefully, many more future conversations with you.

Dr. Benton: It’d be super fun. I’d be honored. Thank you so much.

Ari: For people interested in following your work or working with you or reaching out to you for any reason, where can people do that?

Dr. Benton: I am on Facebook, it’s under Cammy Benton. That’s just it. I’ve cute little doctor cartoon [chuckles] insignia there. Then my website is That’s my website in North Carolina. I have a practice, a direct primary care practice in North Carolina.

Ari: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Benton. Really such a pleasure and thank you for carving out the time and all the extra time that you gave me. I’ll let you go have dinner with your kids now. Have a wonderful night.

Dr. Benton: Thank you. Great, thank you. I could talk about this all the time, it was good stuff.

Ari: [chuckles] Me too. All right, have a good one.

Dr. Benton: Thank you.

Show Notes

The primary reasons why the vaccine topic is so charged (9:37)
The commonly accepted logic around vaccines (27:47)
Doctors’ Continued Medical Education (32:45)
Should you reject all vaccines? (43:49)
The development of vaccine schedule from 1960 to now (47:03)
Vaccine Antibodies (52:47)
Safety of vaccines (1:14:00)

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