In this episode, I am speaking with UCLA professor Dr. László Boros—an expert on metabolic water biochemistry–on why a strange substance you’ve never heard of called “deuterium” could be the hidden key to unlocking vibrant health, preventing disease, and having high energy levels.
This is the second podcast with Dr. Boros. With that in mind, we’re assuming that you’ve already listened to part one, you already understand a lot of the basic concepts we covered there, and then we’re picking up where we left off. If you haven’t already listened to part one, I strongly encourage you to do that before you continue here.
In this podcast, Dr. Boros will cover:
- The general effects of deuterium on health
- The link between deuterium depletion and cancer treatment
- How to test for deuterium (And the levels you should look for in your tests)
- The different factors that increase deuterium in our environment
- How caveman ate and preserved food (And how this is relevant for deuterium levels)
- Why we shouldn’t drink too much water
- The role of molecular hydrogen in relation to deuterium
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Deuterium Depletion Powerful Health Hack For Energy, Cancer Prevention, And More, With Dr. László Boros Part 2 - Transcript
Ari Whitten: Hey guys. This is Ari. I wanted to give this quick little intro/warning before we get into this episode. The warning is specifically because the topic of this conversation, and specifically the way Dr. Boros talks and teaches this subject really assumes a pretty strong familiarity with a lot of basic concepts in understanding human metabolism, physiology, biochemistry, and things of that nature. The warning is basically, if you don’t have a significant background in those subjects, this particular podcast might be difficult for you to understand.
I want to save you some frustration. Maybe you want to skip it altogether, or just at least mentally prepare yourself for the fact that there’s going to be things that Dr. Boros explains in many cases in this podcast that are over your head, and just resolve to understand what you can understand and glean some insights without getting too frustrated over the fact that he’s saying things that you can’t understand. With that said, I really want to encourage you to listen to it. This is a fascinating subject. There’s lots of really great insights to glean from this.
One more little thing I want to say is, this is part two of this podcast with Dr. Boros or the second podcast, I should say. With that in mind, we’re assuming that you’ve already listened to part one, you already understand a lot of the basic concepts we covered there, and then we’re picking up where we left off. If you haven’t already listened to part one, I strongly encourage you to do that before you listen to this one. Again, it’ll just be a source of frustration for you. You’ll find this material pretty inaccessible unless you’ve already listened to all the material we covered in part one.
The last little thing I wanted to mention is, he had some audio issues on his side. I spent probably 20 minutes with him trying to get these audio issues resolved. At the end of the day, we couldn’t figure out what was causing this little clicking noise on the background on his end. We decided since we had this appointment scheduled and it was weeks in the making, we decided to just record anyway. I apologize for the audio issues. Hopefully, you can block those out and just listen to the content. Again, this is really fascinating stuff and I hope you’ll enjoy the episode.
Hey there. This is Ari Whitten. Welcome back to the Energy Blueprint podcast. Today, I have with me, for the second time, Dr. Laszlo Boros. We are going to cover even more nuances and complexities of this whole topic of deuterium. Now, before we get into this, I want to preface by saying that, even not having recorded this yet, I’m sure that today’s podcast will be full of enough biochemistry complexities, that if you have not already listened to the first podcast, you will probably be totally lost listening to this one. Make sure to listen to the first podcast before you listen to this one. It’s a complex topic, and you’ll need that background information to get into this one.
With that said, let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Boros. He is a Professor of Pediatrics at UCLA and the Co-Director of the Stable Isotope Research Laboratory at the Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center with a primary focus on studying cancer cell metabolism. He’s also an internationally proclaimed expert of metabolic water biochemistry, as well as the role of deuterium in health and disease. This is just a snippet of his very long and impressive CV. Without getting into a long list of all that stuff, I wanted to give a kind of a quick snapshot of his expertise. Welcome back to the show, Dr. Boros. Such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming on for part two.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Hello, and Hello, everyone. It’s an honor to talk to your audience and to you about these complex issues. I hope after all, we can settle it, so it’s understandable for the new audiences.
Ari Whitten: Now, I’m going to try to give a super ultra-brief summary of the basic idea of deuterium and why it matters in health. Please, correct me if I say anything wrong or add anything that you think is essential. Basically, we have this molecule called deuterium, which is an isotope, a variant of hydrogen. Hydrogen, of course, if people think of like H2O, water, our bodies are 70% water, so we’re filled with lots and lots of hydrogen.
Well, some of those hydrogens, a very small portion of them, can be this variant called deuterium, which basically has this proton. It’s basically like a very large, very heavy version of hydrogen. When we accumulate this in our body and ourselves in excessive amounts, and when our body systems for getting rid of it, for depleting it are not functioning optimally, these deuterium molecules can end up working their way into our cells, into our mitochondria, where they can physically damage those mitochondria and cause them to be dysfunctional or die off. Is that an accurate 30 seconds or minute-long summary of this whole concept?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: This was actually very accurate. I just have to make two small corrections. Hydrogen and deuterium, these atoms, not molecules.
Ari Whitten: Okay, thank you.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: By definition, atom is a single chemical entity. It is composed of protons, neutrons, as you mentioned, and electrons. That’s only just one little detail. When you look at their mass difference between hydrogen and deuterium, it’s actually 100% increase. Deuterium is twice as heavy, twice as large as protons or hydrogen or hydrogen atom is. It’s the largest increase in weight and size as far as the atomic word goes, meaning that this is really a dramatic increase in portions of weight and size adding to any atom. I’ll give you an example.
If you look at carbon, which has 12 particles in the nucleus, six protons, and six neutrons. If you look at the first stable isotope, is C13, which has one extra neutron, but it only increases the weight by about 8%. It’s really not a 100% increase. There are other isotopes and atoms, a chemistry word are much less dramatic as far as exerting any kind of biological effect. This is deuterium, it’s so important. Your summary was excellent. Thank you so much.
The evidence on deuterium for health
Ari Whitten: Great. Thank you for that. We had some communications following the part one podcast and I had been thinking about some issues. There were some things that weren’t making a lot of sense to me and then we started communicating about them and you started basically saying, “These are complex issues. We should just do a part two podcast and cover some of these complexities there because these aren’t simple answers.” That’s part of the impetus of this podcast.
Now, let’s get into some specifics about deuterium. There’s a whole bunch of complexities to the biochemistry here that I want to dig into. A lot of this seems very focused on the biochemical mechanisms. What I’d like to ask you is to zoom out to the big picture. What do we know about deuterium and human health for certain? Apart leaving the biochemical mechanisms aside for now, as far as I can tell, the main research that we have is the use of deuterium-depleted water and the context of people with cancer. There’s some really positive research there showing that it can benefit people with cancer and prevent progression of the cancers and so on.
Outside of that, I’ve been able to find one study maybe two studies where they were, I think, in Bulgaria, looking at natural water concentrations of deuterium in the water supply and drawing a correlation between that and the health of those populations. Beyond that, I really haven’t been able to find a whole lot of big-picture, long-term health outcomes as a result of deuterium levels. What do you perceive as the best evidence that we have for the role of deuterium in human health?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: There’s a very good paper from the University of Oxford looking at deuterium content in drinking water and comparing that to depression and anxiety susceptibility. It is a map that almost correlates with the US between content in water, meaning that it seems that there’s almost a regression coefficient correlation, a very strong, very close correlation to the deuterium in the amount of drinking water and certain population diseases including anxiety and depression.
Also, if you compare this map with the United States cancer mortality or death statistics, it’s also a very highly correlated, meaning that if you explore publish data into peer-reviewed scientific literature, clinical data that shows disease prevalence, and that are mostly population diseases that includes obesity, cancer, and anxiety, and depression, there’s a very high correlation of deuterium content of drinking water.
I don’t know if you saw that paper. I can send you a copy of it, but practically, that’s one of the very crucial, very important papers that we usually review simply just for additional information and looking at the deuterium content of the water that they publish. She’s from the US Department of Agriculture and Department of Geology. They actually measure these values.
The other very important development is that now there is a new study out from the University of Basel Children’s Hospital, where they actually link cancer treatments with mechanisms that deplete deuterium by closing active points under surface or actually making portable, extracellular or environmental water to be able to enter the mitochondria or the cells, therapeutic very beneficial. They discussed deuterium, the role of deuterium in these papers, and these are clinical papers. These are patient-related data, case reports, and small cohorts that we can actually trace now from the deuterium biochemistry point of view.
These treatments do the same as what biochemistry arguments or biochemistry biochemical reactions do. Usually, when you perform the biochemical reaction, you always use water or protons or water or hydroxyl groups of water. This is the most common biochemical reaction, we call it hydrolysis, when the enzyme uses a water molecule to actually break a substrate into products or modify the product.
Now, because hydrogen is involved in these biochemical reactions, the device is having deuterium content part does not work well with these reactions. Some of those reactions are designed by nature to remove hydrogen and replace it with cellular water derived hydrogen, and that’s supposed to be deuterium depleted simply because our cells are or membranes are trying to keep deuterium out and they try to deplete deuterium for the protection of mitochondria.
Ari Whitten: Interesting. We have some epidemiological evidence, as you said, from the water supply and how that correlates with rates of anxiety, depression, and cancer risk. We have the randomized controlled studies with deuterium-depleted water in the context of cancer patients, and we have the layers of evidence that you presented here. Are there people now working on like randomized controlled studies with healthy population and things of that nature to look at long term risk of various diseases?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: I do get feedback from my colleagues who actually deliver deuterium depleting therapies. There’s one clinician, her name is Dr. Dawson. She reports back of her patients, not necessarily just cancer and anxiety, but also there are cases which we can discuss with you if you wish. It’s very broad as far as from feedback from physicians practicing physicians or naturopathic medicine clinics that deuterium depletion has not only cancer, and not only diabetes or obesity, but some other neurodegenerative positioning or being able to have patients in many disease areas with deuterium depletion.
At UCLA, we are running preclinical studies with deuterium-depleted water in neonatal complications, meaning that when there are low birth weight babies, their lungs are because of their ventilation and because of their positive pressure, breathing machines, their lungs get damaged. Those cells actually are neither protected by deuterium-depleted water simply because then they’re not any motors are protected by deuterium-depleted water.
There are randomized clinical studies, as you mentioned, which are open access studies. In prostate cancer, definitely there are case reports in brain cancer. You can actually look at those papers in the scientific literature. There are some correlative or some epidemiological studies, the one that we mentioned before and the one that you mentioned, from Bulgaria. Those can be used on our broader scale of arguments of how deuterium depletion helps after all of our health.
Obviously, there is a clinical scenario or clinical approach where actually they look at various plasma profiles, for example, lipid profiles. What they find is, again, a clinical study from Pittsburgh, that if a patient has high circulating fatty acid levels, their cancer progresses less rapidly simply because of their lower deuterium content of fatty acids that are available for making metabolic water into your cells as well. Those actually, those papers in their discussions, they actually bring up to deuterium depletion as the potential biochemical mechanism for the better outcome for those patients.
Ari Whitten: Interesting.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: I have a list of those papers that people can find on my website. I encourage everybody to do research, literature research or research on deuterium depletion because there’s–
Ari Whitten: Well, I’d like to get some of those references from you and we’ll put them on the podcast pages for these two podcasts with you on my website. That’ll be at the energyblueprint.com/deuterium. I’ll make sure to get some of those references that you’re referring to. Are there any studies where they’ve looked at tissue levels of deuterium in specific diseases other than cancer, so like in diabetes, for example, or neurological diseases? Have they found that people with those diseases have higher levels of deuterium accumulated and damaged in the pathological tissues?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Actually, MRI is a deuterium measuring device. Any study that use low energy field MRI can be used for this purpose. It’s very hard to measure deuterium tissue levels simply because you have to have biopsies and so on if you want to do it directly, but indirectly–
Ari Whitten: Or even the whole body deuterium in people with various diseases?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: There is deuterium metabolic profiling carried out by Iowa University. What we see is that once they label glucose, for example, with deuterium, that shows up in metabolic water very quickly. You can actually load deuterium into your tissues, and that’s a radiology type of work. I can give you that reference as well. Practically, all the studies when it comes to reinterpretation of data, all these studies could be performed if there was a significant interest in studying tissue levels of deuterium in connection with various diseases.
I don’t really know about any clinical studies that actually look at these, but if we do our own work with collaboration, or just following up on publications, for example, the Iowa University Department of Radiology, we can find a lot of useful data to address these, what we call, questions or concerns. Looking at MRI data and looking at MRI measurement, it seems that there are deuterium tissue concentration in connection with plasma and blood deuterium content based on the density of these MRI images that can be a very useful way or approach to actually address these very important questions.
The best ways to test for deuterium
Ari Whitten: Let me ask one more kind of layer to this question, which is, in the last episode, we talked about some of the deuterium tests that are available to urine and saliva, and so on, and breath. You mentioned some specific numbers that I think– Forgive me if I’m getting these slightly wrong, but I remember you mentioning like wanting to see below 130 or 125 parts per million on the breath test or the saliva test. Then we talked about a difference in measurement from the urine to the breath or from the saliva to the breath–
I’m forgetting which one it was. My question to you is, don’t those numbers have to be based on something? Don’t they have to be based on- like we know that healthy populations have these levels of deuterium and disease populations have these levels of deuterium, so, therefore, we want to see it at these levels which is associated with good health?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes, it depends on age group and it depends on health. Patients- and I don’t want to sound like you’re running a clinical study, but let’s talk about my own data. My breath BPM is 1370 without depleting deuterium. My saliva and urine in the same time it’s 146, so our body is trying to deplete deuterium and then we can measure it. It’s not a question of our breath, which is more like tissue imprint water in our exhaled breath, it has lowered deuterium.
I believe, and this is a biological context, that our biological system developed. Again, we look at historically of deuterium content in water and air historically and anthropology, evaluation of those values go back 15,000, 20,000 years or even four million years in some scenarios based on the nutritional inputs of those papers that we can tell that actually the evolution of mankind was actually deuterium-depleted environment for a very long time eating ketogenic food, bone marrow more specifically, fat and bone marrow and and brain or tissues that could be obtained from bones.
Practically, our metabolism are deuterium processing biological ability or biochemical threshold and protection from deuterium from the environment. It is scaled somewhere in the 125 to 140 range in the last 15,000 years. That was the last type of measurements that we could actually bring from the scientific literature. After that, there is climate change, there is a food processing, there is a lot of chemical processes that actually load deuterium into our environment and into water and into food.
Ari Whitten: That lower deuterium in the environment?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: It’s actually loads. Loads.
Ari Whitten: Loads. Okay.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: It’s actually deuterium depletion and it’s just increased now in food and environment, deuterium, and being believed that it exceeds our biochemical biological threshold and mitochondria are exposed to deuterium now more and more in the population. Because of that, there’s more population diseases and there’s more epidemics of more obvious epidemics of cancer, Alzheimer’s disease or obesity, diabetes, and you know what in large scale, those trends are. They are almost the same or very similar to have deuterium increase in our food and in our environment by processed foods and also with bottled water.
Ari Whitten: Now, I feel like there’s– Forgive me for interrupting you, but there’s so many layers there that I want to dig into. First, I will say just to play devil’s advocate, yes, you could draw those kinds of correlations that over the last, let’s say, 100 years, deuterium levels have raised, but it’s also the case that process food is a major driver of disease for the reasons that really don’t relate to deuterium.
Deuterium maybe part of that story, but we also know there’s other mechanisms that play certainly, as far as damaging gut health and gut microbiome, causing chronic inflammation and causing the whole food reward theory of obesity, causing chronic over consumption of food leading to fat gain, diabetes, insulin resistance, obesity, and all of the diseases that are associated with that. There’s many mechanisms at play. [crosstalk] Yes, sorry, go ahead.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Again, deuterium content in your food will determine how your gut bacteria is able to proliferate and how much deuterium gets into your epithelial cells of your gut. After all, gut starts processing deuterium from food. That’s one of the main purpose of gut bacteria to actually harvest deuterium from food or any substrate that gets into your digestive system because that’s how bacteria grow, they retain deuterium.
If deuterium is excessive in processed food, which is the case, we know that because of data and because also because of arguments, we in Clinical Translational Science, that can damage your epithelial cells of your gut. You’re right, those are very critical, very crucial. The leaking gut syndrome is very crucial, very important, but again, it has a biochemical mechanism or a biochemical reasoning that goes back to your deuterium in your food that is exposing your epithelial cells for mitochondrial damage.
How food affects your deuterium levels
Ari Whitten: On an environmental level, outside of the processing of the food supply, and I wouldn’t try to debate you that the deuterium content of the food supply has increased as a result of processed food, I think that’s unquestionably true. On a more historical environmental level, you were mentioning something to the effect of that deuterium is increasing in the overall environment, so can you be specific? Let’s say over the last 10 million years, has there been any noticeable shift in the amount of deuterium in the general water supply, for example, or in the air that we’re breathing?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes, this is a very good question. If you go back to 12,000 to 15,000 years and you look at volcanic ash that erupted on in New Zealand, where there is actually ocean vapor, it’s a small island enough to be covered in the ocean vapor and volcanic ash, would actually capture deuterium content after ocean vapor, and it’s about 135 ppm. It actually significantly lowers 12,000, 15,000 years ago than it is now as far as the oceanic vapor goes.
Now, oceanic vapor determines of your rains, deuterium level, and because of the falling rains, deuterium level determines your crops. Deuterium level these is kind of more like a circle of deuterium in the environment that actually eventually gets into all kinds of food sources and all kind of physical process simply because of the vaporation of the ocean is now occurring at a higher temperature.
Again, because of the physical processes involved in deuterium exposure and deuterium fractionation and due to loading into the environment, we can actually trace historically these processes through data in physics in geology simply because this is why this is an interdisciplinary or this is an approach where actually you have to consider many different areas when you formulate your opinion.
The other interesting thing is that in anthropology’s data or studies in anthropology, we now learn that the human brain developed on ketogenic diet simply because the prehistoric man was only eating or had access to significant amounts of bone marrow because they could open by tools, they could open their long bones of plant-eating animals. That’s fat source is about 118 to 204 ppm, meaning that it’s they actual–
Ari Whitten: How many ppm is it?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Between 112 and 118.
Ari Whitten: I think you said 180.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: 118.
Ari Whitten: Okay, got it.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: It’s significantly lower than the food that we eat. If you buy a corn chip, and you eat like a bag of chips, then you’re eating 156 ppm fructose and rich the corn chips which are actually very high in deuterium. Our ancestors did not have this high-deuterium source simply because they didn’t have access to much food, and they didn’t have access to–
Ari Whitten: Let me dig into that with you a bit. You’re saying that our ancestors ate mostly bone marrow specifically?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: That’s what the anthropology data shows. It was a non-competitive food source because predators they left the bones behind. The prehistoric man was able to open skulls and also long bones of like femur, for example, in mammal and that yielded a lot of bone– It was a non-competitive food source for them. In fact, in 400,000–
Ari Whitten: You are saying like they’re scavenging the kills of other predators like a lion kills a zebra and then the humans are going into the carcass and eating the bone marrow?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Eating the bone marrow because they could open it by tools, by stone tools.
Ari Whitten: Whereas the animals couldn’t.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Whereas the animals couldn’t. This is because we can use our fingers now. We can oppose our fingers. Simply, we can hold tools and we can actually use stones to break bones. This is anthropology. This was published by the University of Arizona. We’re going to put these papers together for this podcast, so you can actually go back to the original scientific data.
They depended on bone marrow so much that they learned how to conserve or how to make a pantry of it. Now, I’m just using the terminology that they used in the original publication. Once they found a carcass, and if they could not eat the bone marrow because they were not hungry, for example, what they did is they actually pulled back the skin onto the bone which had the bone marrow for later use.
Based on the historic and anthropology data, 400,000 years ago, a caveman was actually pickling their own bone marrow by simply pulling the bone and suturing the skin back on the bone that they found,and they were able to conserve bone marrow for up to nine weeks, meaning that for almost two months, they could actually keep this bone marrow around if they were hungry. They could actually carry them with them, these conserved bones. If you look at anthropology data, if you look at historic data, what you learn is that our nutrition was very depleting nutrition. Our environment was– [crosstalk] Go ahead.
Ari Whitten: Let me just play devil’s advocate for a moment. This is maybe one period in history that you’re referring to as far as our ancestors. I think there’s two– I want to sandwich that period in history with our ancestors on either side of it, going back way, way further than that. We could look at our primate ancestors who were mostly, at least, by modern primates, mostly vegetarians, and plant-eating, or herbivorous, maybe with some exceptions. I think chimpanzees and maybe a few other primates have some carnivory aspect of what they’re doing. They’re meat-eating sometimes, but they’re mostly herbivorous.
More recent to that, the best data we have on hunter-gatherers from anthropology researchers like Stefan Lindaberg who wrote a book compiling all this data from his studies of hunter-gatherers that are still in existence today, there were many, many tribes, the Hadza, the Tukisenta, the Tarahumara, the Simane, the Cuna, who are eating, actually, carbohydrate-based diets.It does seem to me that, going back many, many thousands of years ago, for a large chunk of human history, these carbohydrates have been a big part of our diet. I just don’t think it’s a reasonable argument to say that we were eating predominantly fat. All of our human ancestors were eating predominantly fat.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: This is what I thought, actually, would be the case. It seems that once they found it hard to open the bones, once the human evolution started based on this nutritional adaptation, that’s when the human being started to develop. You’re right. Primates who are vegetarians, they are still in that same, I would say, developmental stage, but the humans, simply by finding this food source, between depleted food sources, they were able to advance in their brain development simply because they were eating less deuterium-loaded food.
Now, again, you’re right, the primates are vegetarians, I mean most of the primates. Chimpanzees are actually carnivores. Actually, they are so carnivorous that they can actually kill other species, almost eradicate other foreigners and species. There were some stories in an African journal- but you’re right. If you eat a plant-based diet, if it’s not processed food, then the carbohydrates in plants, beans, and and and many plants, especially in seeds which are high in fat, those are also deuterium depleted.
It is deuterium depletion, after all, what food sources is. You just have to find exactly what is the origin of that food, deuterium-depleted food. Simply, nature has carbohydrates depleted of deuterium, fatty acids depleted of deuterium. This is one of the extra chloroplasts or extra-mitochondrial synthesis of certain sugars or carbohydrates in plants. They are actually very deuterium depleted on certain positions.
When you talk about these nutritional scenarios, these also fit into the deuterium-depletion scenario and you just need to identify exactly. You need to look at the regional data, how depleted those are, but actually we can lean those mechanisms to deuterium depletion as well.
Ari Whitten: Got you. Man, I have so much on my list here to cover. You’ve mentioned, for example, that refined flour and sugar, and you gave the example of corn chips covered in vegetable oil, that those would be also very high in deuterium, like 165 parts per million. It seems to me–
Dr. Laszlo Boros: 156.
Ari Whitten: 156, okay.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: ’56, yes. Imagine that?
Ari Whitten: From what I looked at, and correct me if my numbers are slightly off here, but from what I saw, most water sources, typical tap water is around 150 or 145. It’s not that far off from that.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: That’s right.
How water affects deuterium levels
Ari Whitten: As I was thinking about it after our first podcast, and I’d emailed you this, as what prompted this whole discussion of doing the second podcast, but it occurred to me that when we’re looking at these parts per million numbers of, let’s say, refined sugar, and let’s say someone consumes five tablespoons of pure refined sugar every day, and you can look at the parts per million and say it’s 155 parts per million of deuterium, and then you can compare that to, let’s say, 145 parts per million of water.
Then when you figure in the absolute amounts of grams of the substances that we’re consuming, so let’s say it’s five tablespoons of sugar over here, whatever that works out to be, 70 grams of carbohydrate, at 155 parts per million. Let’s say it’s- I don’t know, whatever the math works out to be, 1,000, however many thousands of deuterium atoms. Then if you consider that you compare it to just plain water consumption at 145 parts per million, slightly lower, but, instead of 70 grams of that substance, you’re consuming 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 grams a day.
The actual amount of deuterium atoms that is being poured into the body each day is 10 times, 50 times greater just from drinking plain water than it is from any particular food source. My question to you is, if we’re going to look at specific foods and look at their toxicity in that regard, wouldn’t this model, this way of looking at things, means that plain old water consumption is the most toxic thing of all because that’s adding the most deuterium atoms to the body?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: You’re right in that argument. This is actually a very interesting new area of studying, simply because, if you drink water excessively, meaning that you don’t feel thirsty, you just drink it as a habit, you turn or down-regulate or dismantle the process that we called antidiuretic hormone synthesis, which actually helps some mitochondrial health very much. Our urine production, you actually use about 800 liters, which probably use about 200 gallons of primary filtrate in your kidneys a day, and it’s reabsorbed into the circulation to kidney tubules. Those are deuterium-depleting processes, but actually there is a threshold that you cannot really exceed as far as loading deuterium in your system.
Once you exceed these thresholds, there’s even a worse thing that happens. I’ll give you an example. Let’s say your biochemistry or biochemical reactions can filter out 140 ppm from water into urine. I’m just giving you an example, 140 ppm water or 130 ppm water that makes sure if you drink it moderately or when you’re thirsty, then there’s no deuterium that gets into your mitochondria. If you drink 140 ppm water excessively, you actually increase your deuterium dramatically simply because not only your scavenging mechanism is failing, but practically the amount, if you multiply with the deuterium content of the water that you’re drinking, you’re actually exceeding biological threshold or filtering processes very, very dramatic, and that can be as you mentioned, very accurately, that’s a very good argument.
That can actually cause mitochondrial damage and in tissue-specific mitochondrial damage as you can develop diseases which obesity, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, these degenerative diseases, those are all part of this process simply trying to fight off deuterium that is arriving from water, mostly because excessively drinking water has one of those bad side effects. I agree with that.
Ari Whitten: Now, this is where the whole landscape gets really muddled to me because, on the one hand, there are many health experts out there recommending for you to drink more water and noticing beneficial effects of drinking more water.
There are many studies that have shown, that have linked, for example, low consumption of water with a mild state of dehydration, impaired brain performance, impaired mood, increased risk of various diseases and I’ve seen studies I can cite studies on the podcast page related to that for anybody interested.
Even more directly to this, there are other people talking about deuterium, who- and deuterium’s role in health, who have the opposite advice as you have. For example, Jack Kruse. He’s also talking about the importance of keeping deuterium levels low, but he’s a huge advocate of drinking lots and lots of water. You’re saying that we should keep deuterium levels low, but in order to do that, we need to be careful with our water consumption and not drink too much.
It seems to me that one of you guys has to be wrong in this story, and I don’t know which one it is, but it just- Yes, something doesn’t make sense here.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Is this about water consumption or this is about deuterium? I think we agree on deuterium somewhat.
Ari Whitten: Yes, you and Jack Kruse agree on deuterium, but you have totally opposite recommendations with regards to water consumption.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: My argument is practically just like anything else, just like anything else, your body has the ability to control urination and water intake and food intake. That’s why I hunger, that’s why I thirst. That’s why these feeds, that’s why these hormones are established or are actually working in our physiology to actually control these processes.
I don’t see any reason to drink water if you’re not thirsty. Your thirst is there to show you or signal to you that you have to drink water.
I’ll give you an example. You only see animals drinking when they are thirsty. The lions, they are actually laying close to the lake for four hours simply because they’re just digesting their food. They only drink when they’re thirsty. I have not seen any other species both from drinking consuming water excessively without any cause or any reason or having diseases, population diseases, the amount or the scales and the nature of what we have now as human populations.
Truly water is a very precious resource, obviously, even if it’s not available, drinking water or the consumption of water is regulated just like urination, meaning that you do it in certain periods when you have a need for it.
Antidiuretic or ADH is very important because it can be the excessive water intake, you can actually shut down its production. I’ll give you an example. In the American population now, the average ADH serum level is about point six. The normal level would be one, meaning that actually the general American population is actually suffering from a disease called diabetes insipidus when you don’t have enough antidiuretic hormone to regulate your water intake and your urination.
If you drink excessive amount of water, you urinate excessive amounts of water and simply this is not what nature invented for you. This is not why your thirst is based on antidiuretic hormone levels is signaling to you when you do need to drink water and even it tells how much water you should drink because your thirst goes away once you have consumed enough amount of water.
Usually, animals let’s say, predators, they only go once or twice to drink simply because, for them, it’s very dangerous because that’s where predators gather, at water consumption, because you are actually exposed to an open area. It’s usually a group activity of animals, so water consumption is-
They don’t have bottled water. Just because humans have bottled water, and it’s not a challenge to consume it anymore, it does not mean that you should consume it simply because it has some effect, and which are undesirable from the endocrinology point of view.
If you look at this data, what’s the average antidiuretic hormone level in the American population? You’re going to see that actually it’s in the disease range, almost. It’s like diabetes insipidus in a large scale. That is true of–
Ari Whitten: To be fair, is an antidiuretic hormone affected by more than just water consumption? I think it has to be because, let me– Well, I think there’s a lot of legitimacy to what you’re saying, but here’s how I would break this down. Yes, it is genuinely the case that it is possible to have excessive water consumption and harm to health, you can cause hyponatremia. There are athletes that die from hyponatremia as a result of excessive water consumption.
It’s the case that if someone consumes two or three gallons of water, clean water right now, in the next five minutes, they can cause permanent brain damage and put themselves in a coma or even die from drinking too much water.
It is also the case, though, that there’s research showing that low levels of water consumption is linked with increased risk of disease, and while I agree that it’s definitely something that’s regulated, there are studies that have shown impaired athletic performance, impaired energy levels, impaired mood, impaired cognitive performance, measurable levels of impaired performance in those areas, before the person actually feels thirst. There seems to be this kind of area that someone can be slightly dehydrated before feeling thirsty. I think it’s a complex area.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes. Again, if you drink water excessively, then you just like you kill your beta cells to produce insulin, you can kill your hypothalamus cells to produce antidiuretic hormone. It takes about six months to build the ability to produce antidiuretic hormone again, which again, has a very strong and very important effect of mitochondrial functions.
If you run a study on someone who does not have yet the ADH to be adjusted, to participate and respond to water withdrawal appropriately, then you’re going to have the side effects and I agree with you, if you can select your disease or study population carefully, meaning that you actually primed these patients or these subjects to be able to produce ADH, then even with low water intake, you’re not going to see these negative effects simply because your body knows how to regulate sodium, potassium, and other salts and atoms and inorganic chemical substitutes in your plasma simply because that’s one of the other roles that ADH or antidiuretic hormone and other hormones do.
It’s pretty much like giving sugar to a patient who has not build the ability to produce insulin. You don’t cut water intake in patients who don’t know how to produce or don’t have the ability to produce antidiuretic hormone. If you prime them with gradually lowering their water intake and you actually prime them to be able to produce ADH or in those studies, you would get a very different outcome.
Ari Whitten: Got you. One of the other areas that I was thinking about after our first podcast is, so you were talking about avoiding excessive water consumption. I think you mentioned something to the effect of you don’t drink water either at all or you drink very small amounts of it and you drink mostly olive oil based on that the fat will be produced into metabolic water by your mitochondria. Is that accurate?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: That’s accurate. I do drink water when I’m thirsty. I follow nature’s rules. If I had enough fat and if I don’t exercise, if I don’t walk the dogs, if I don’t do my push-ups, if I don’t challenge myself with physical exercise, then there are days that I don’t have to consume water simply because I had or eaten enough fat or had enough oil in my system that produces metabolic water.
If I’m thirsty, the first thing I do is just to drink a small amount of water that cures my thirst because that’s what my body signals to me that my ADH hormone signals with some other in collaboration with other hormones, it just signals to me that you need to drink water. I would certainly drink deuterium depleted water because that’s what our body’s trying to produce. The amount is practically a half a glass simply just to see how much of that water cures my thirst.
Ari Whitten: But aren’t water molecules required for beta-oxidation for using fats for fuel. Don’t we have a net loss of water through the course of the day and even as a result of consuming food unless you’re consuming really water-rich food? Isn’t it still a net loss even if the water that is being produced is deuterium depleted metabolic water?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes. Let me answer your first question first because, in the mitochondria, in tri-copacetic acid cycle, we all constantly recycle water. That’s what the fumarate hydratase, that’s what the isocitrate, the hydrogenase does. They actually recycle water in the mitochondria.
Your metabolic water 7200 litres of eight or 2000 gallons of either day, that’s the amount of water protons are recycled in the mitochondria.
In mitochondria, there’s another process that is occurring and this is actually entering this scientific argument [unintelligible] rapidly is what we call is the quantum destabilization of protons or water. This is practically how you’re in the mitochondrial nano confinements or very tiny spaces in the mitochondrial cristae or crista.
There is actually a spontaneous water between those hydrophobic membranes, there is a spontaneous disassembly of water into hydrogen protons and hydroxyl groups. The protons tend to go to this quantum distabilization which means that they actually go into a wavelength or wavelengthy type of is called the zero-point energy state, they go into a more of a quantum state where actually they can produce a lot of particles for example photons.
I heard in your excellent podcast that you are light and photon related research expert, and I would like to give this argument to your excellent reasoning about light that actually photons can be produced at the zero-point energy level because protons can actually participate in quantum physics or quantum reactions in three different ways.
One is the delocalization which we use in MRI, the other one is zero-point energy which actually makes these protons to go into more like a wavelengthy or more like a quantum state and in tunneling, meaning that protons can actually bounce each other and they can actually tunnel in biochemical systems.
In mitochondria those are all very significant especially when it comes to the research of this exclusion layer water, which definitely exists. We don’t call it a fourth phase of water, but because of hydrophilic hydrophobic surfaces handle water molecules differently, water structures are differently around different surfaces. That research is very important–
Ari Whitten: This is something I– I’ll let you finish your thought if I’m interrupting but I want to come back to Gerald Pollock’s work and connect some dots there.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes, I’ll finish just very shortly. When it comes to water in the TC cycle, water runs the TC cycle. We only need to drink water simply or eat food to keep the water in the mitochondria protonated so there are extra protons there that can be processed with oxygen into water. That kind of continues to run the TC cycle.
Practically, the amount of water we lose in the form of hearing or breath is probably in the two or three-litre range a day. From food, we can produce proton and hydrogen-based oxygen, reduced oxygen or metabolic water and we need to drink water as well, but that’s guided by thirst. This is why our physiology and biochemistry is just so related to disturbed urination, sleep, hunger, these are all regulated in a very in a connected manner.
Ari Whitten: Got you. Maybe I’ll save Dr. Pollock’s work for a second. This podcast is interesting for me because you’re such a biochemistry expert and I’m such a big-picture kind of person that I– let me put it this way, I have seen just so many cases where speculation based on physiological or biochemical mechanisms turns out to be just totally and completely wrong when you actually test it in a meaningful way.
I’ve seen so many theories over the years. People can say leptons do this at the molecular level therefore, all foods containing leptons or disease-causing, but then when you actually look at the data, we know that foods that are rich and leptons are decidedly associated with good health.
Or you can say insulin is the main thing that makes you fat. Therefore, the only way to lose fat is to restrict carbohydrates, but then when we test equal calorie diets that are lower high carb at equal levels of calories, they cause the- and different levels of insulin, they result in the same exact amount of fat loss. I could give you 20 other examples of evaluation based on biochemical mechanisms turns out to be dead wrong when you actually put it to the test in terms of real-world human health outcomes.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Exactly.
Ari Whitten: I’m genuinely fascinated with this whole topic of deuterium. I think there’s some impressive research, especially around the deuterium depletion in the context of cancer treatments.
However, when we’re arriving at things like restricting water intake or perceiving water to be toxic, or that we need to consume– we need to avoid protein and carbs and eat a diet that is really very, very unlike kind of everything we know from nutrition research and the best diets that are associated with longevity and disease prevention. For example, from the Blue Zone data from best randomized controlled studies.
In other words, you’re like some of the conclusions that were arriving at from extrapolating from these deuterium related mechanisms seem very much at odds with what we know from the best nutrition data on long term health outcomes associated with how should we eat.
Given again, my background with seeing so much of the mechanism-based speculation turning out to be wrong, I am wary of that being the case here as well.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: We are not speculating. We are measuring the team levels. We actually look at biochemical scenarios and we are not restricting water. If you’re thirsty or anybody’s thirsty, they have access to water. Restriction water is practically if you don’t allow anyone to drink water and hydrate their system which is regulated by physiology. What you’re talking about is excessively consuming water. That’s a very different scenario.
Ari Whitten: Yes, I agree.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: I’ve never said that don’t drink water if you’re thirsty, I never said you don’t keep water around because [unintelligible]. What I was saying is that wait for your physiology, for your body to signal just like for many other things, if you are sleepy, then you go to sleep. If you’re thirsty you drink– you’re not going to go to sleep in the middle of the day when you’re not sleepy. Well, you’re not going to go to the restroom, to urinate when you don’t have to urinate, but for some reason, you drink water excessively, even when you’re not thirsty.
When you look at those studies, and you look at those arguments, those could be positioned from a different view simply because me as a biochemist, me as a physician, myself as a scientist, we go step by step. We actually look at data. We don’t come up with hypotheses that are just hanging in the cloud. We actually test those hypotheses and we look at data and when we make an interpretation to make it available for the scientific community, and for everybody, for that matter, just to comment and to challenge those proven hypothesis.
I hear you yes, there are many different– and I can give you another set of studies which fall like in the invalid scenario or invalid category after all. We actually do test hypotheses, we actually look at data to reject or keep hypothesis and you can research is actually databased. It’s actually science-based and published information most of us so we don’t have to guess around them practically because there’re original contributions and data. There are papers actually show the medical positioning of deuterium in controlled clinical studies.
I know now the internet and interconnected ways of expressing opinions or putting out some ideas without data, those will crumble simply because there’s no studies, there’s no hypotheses, there is no experiments. There is no experts, there’s no interpretations.
I’m not saying only experts should generate hypothesis, but I think hypothesis should be tested, and opinions should not be just discredited based on just some intellectual contributions, those have to be data-driven. Those have to be experiment-driven. As far as deuterium testing goes, it’s actually in the data scenario, it’s very strong and very established.
I wouldn’t say this is more like a guessing game. There’s a lot more evidence and a lot more data to show how important deuterium depletion is and I hope the clinical work that we are pursuing, and I’ve heard that you’ve been talking to some physicians about cancer and deuterium depletion. That’s what holds. I would not discredit deuterium simply because so many other ideas fail. I think this is here to stay.
Ari Whitten: Yes, got you. No, my intention is definitely not to discredit it. I’m just saying like the– I think, as a general rule, I’m very wary of relying too much on just the biochemical mechanisms to extrapolate that out to strategies at the big-picture level.
I’ve just seen so much nonsense that turns out to be wrong. I’ve seen people say, for example, like, cortisol is terrible for you and sugar suppresses cortisol levels, therefore– For example, in the AP method of eating, we need to consume adequate amounts of sugar to suppress cortisol because that keeps our physiology in a good state and yet we also know from much better control, the consumption of refined sugar is decidedly associated with bad health. What sounds good on a mechanism level turns out to be not so good with [inaudible]
Dr. Laszlo Boros: If you follow my media communications or social communications, I never comment, and I never come out with anything that is not data-driven. Also, I stay away from arguments that are not scientifically timely or positioned or tested or discussed well, meaning that it’s really truly a process that I prefer to pursue and follow for deuterium research.
The other important thing is that I’m trying to take deuterium into the standard medicine. It’s in the biohacking phase right now because people would like to use it, they understand the importance of it. That’s why we do studies now because we want to make this a mainstream medicine.
We want to make this as a medicine to be able and be available at the doctor’s office, fit very clear by a chemical, translational and clinical data and evidence-based medicine, which I do know that’s one of your main missions, doing this podcast to find evidence-based medicine or evidence behind the data or the arguments that are discussed in your excellent show.
I would just like to contribute to it. I would just like to point out the workflow and the steps we take not to be a guessing game anymore.
Ari Whitten: Yes, yes. I thank you for the work you’re doing. I think it’s incredibly-
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Thank you so much.
Ari Whitten: -important. I know we’re a little over time, but I have– Geez, I have a bunch more on my list, but I’ll try and narrow it down to just a couple things. If you have maybe 10 more minutes to spare?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Sure. Sure.
Ari Whitten: Thank you.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: No problem.
Ari Whitten: One thing that I know has come up a few times in some discussions I’ve been involved in is the role of molecular hydrogen and the role of the relationship of that to deuterium, and there’s people using molecular hydrogen as a supplement or hydrogen water. I’m just curious if that has any relationship to deuterium in the body.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes, so we don’t know what the source of the hydrogen gas that they use in the center so I don’t know. I wouldn’t comment under deuterium content. If there is excessive deuterium because hydrogen can be oxidized into water and I don’t really know what kind of deuterium content is in water I guess.
Ari Whitten: That’s interesting. Your interpretation of this is different from actually what I was thinking. You’re more talking about deuterium contamination or deuterium levels in the actual hydrogen tablets. What I was referring to is like, assuming it’s pure hydrogen and not deuterium, what would it be doing and how would it interact with deuterium at the cellular level?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: If that’s the question is if it’s pure hydrogen, the oxygen and hydrogen is supposed to meet in the mitochondria and oxygen is carried in hemoglobin where one of the oxygen bonds is available. If you hydrogen in your plasma or you actually drink water with hydrogen, hydrogen joins oxygen very rapidly. It’s called exposing gas because it’s just such a rapid reaction in chemistry.
I think hydrogen pills or hydrogen saturated water soaks up oxygen ability to deliver its function in mitochondria. That’s the biochemistry argument, so that’s the argument of the biochemist.
If it’s just pure hydrogen, then it depletes deuterium in your system, in your body. If that’s the case, and I could answer this question based on data, I don’t really have data and I don’t know what the source of the hydrogen, if it’s high deuterium or higher a higher in deuterium, then the water or the food that you’re consuming that is not good.
If it’s low in deuterium, you may have some beneficial effects and I’m just not arguing it’s not, I’m just as a biochemist, I’m just saying that it has to be looked at from all different angles and scenarios and certain time can be spent on it but it’s interesting thought.
Ari Whitten: The thought hadn’t even crossed my mind about the deuterium levels in like the hydrogen tablets. It’s quite a, quite a thought to think what if you’re supplementing with hydrogen and really it’s actually rich in deuterium.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes. What they do is they use electrolysis. They electrolyze water or they use it from hydrogen deposits or hydrogen compartments. I don’t know the source and I don’t know the deuterium content, but if it’s high in deuterium, and we know in the industry, they use hydrogen gas for saturation process that are high in deuterium and that’s why the products are high in deuterium, yet with data we could answer this on a more comfortable basis, but I think, after all, it would be that deuterium content that would be an important topic to discuss.
Ari Whitten: Well, to anybody listening who’s involved in hydrogen supplements, I would be interested to see if they could send some of those samples to your lab to test the levels of deuterium in there, in the hydrogenated water from their supplies. That would be very interesting to get those levels.
Another unrelated question from a friend of mine, she was asking– She heard from her doctor that IV vitamin C, she’s undergoing some treatments for melanoma right now. She’s working with some doctors who are involved in deuterium depletion, and they said something about IV vitamin C being country indicated in the context of deuterium depletion. Do you know any or use of deuterium depleted water or something like that? Do you know anything about that interaction?
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Again, vitamin C can balance six protons, right? The chemical structure of vitamin C, it’s actually proton, it’s a protenating compound. If [unintelligible 01:08:21] a scavenge deuterium in mitochondria, if the source of vitamin C is a high deuterium source, then it can interfere with the deuterium depletion process in your body. If it’s a natural source, and it’s low in deuterium, so it’s not pharmaceutical-based or not industrial processed vitamin C, it may have a different effect.
The only reason I’m not commenting on this in more detail is because the effect of vitamin C is so complex in the plasma, in the cell, the cytoplasm and in the mitochondria. It can actually get into the mitochondrial membrane space. It is actually very complicated, very total process and actually can bind protons and deuterium can be also be a structure that binds to vitamin C.
I would not give medical advice on this particular scenario but I think, after all, natural ketogenic diet depleting deuterium water is a more safe, again, I’m not saying it’s better, to more safe approach to address disease progression in cancer.
This is the scientist’s point of view. I’m a medical biochemist, I do advice based on or I do express opinions based on medical biochemistry arguments. I’m also professional scientist in that sense. I’m not a clinical practitioner but a professional practitioner, meaning
that I answer questions that are research-related or not settled yet.
Vitamin C is not at the phase based on deuterium content and based on these other arguments simply what’s the source, what’s the dose, what’s the deuterium status of the patient, what kind of diet and what kind of deuterium depleting water scenarios there are. I think after all, the safest ways to drink deuterium depleted water and eat a natural ketogenic diet to address those cancer progressing type of questions.
Ari Whitten: Excellent. Well, I know we’re way over time here. Thank you so much for your time with me. I would love if we could wrap up this part two with just kind of your top two or top three tips on a more practical level to help people keep their deuterium levels low. Also, maybe challenge you to throw in something about Dr. Pollock’s research around fourth phase water and maybe how that ties into the story.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Yes. Again, deuterium depletion is a very important part of life. Simply that’s what your body is trying to accomplish with all these biochemical reactions. Without going to details, the best way to help your body in this quest is to deplete deuterium from the outside. That includes food and water.
To be in good health, good spirit and the good prospect to look in your future, you want to look at deuterium always simply just to see how it can be depleted in an efficient way.
Metabolic and structured, interfacial and exclusion zone water those are very critical, very important part of research right now. I truly admire the type of work that Dr. Pollock is doing because simply he’s looking at a certain type of water which we don’t call a full phase of water. We call it a structured water with different chemical and different physical chemistry and we kind of know why the water molecules close to the surface, hydrophobic or hydrophilic surfaces behave differently than full water.
It has very important applications especially in mitochondrial health. Protonated water, Zundel and Eigen type complexes are very important of structuring water. Structuring water without deuterium has very important role in proton quantum destabilization, which are very important part we believe of Biology and Cellular Physiology.
Just to sum it off after all, keep watching because with more data, we can make more total and more clinically feasible arguments. This is how deuterium depletion, hopefully, will become standard medicine that can be obtained to doctors’ orders simply because they understand these mechanisms.
Ari Whitten: Yes, absolutely. Dr. Boros, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for the work you’re doing. I really appreciate it. I’m sure that there are many people’s lives who are already being positively affected by it and will be affected by it in the future. Thank you for that work.
If somebody wants to reach out to you or get their deuterium levels tested or start to learn how to deplete deuterium levels, do you do consultations like that? Do you want to– Feel free to let people know how to reach you and how to work with you and so on.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: I do consultations. I do scientific consultations. I do consult with physicians and patients through physicians because I don’t give advice to patients directly, but I do answer their scientifical science related questions. I do the same with doctors.
I work for UCLA. I’m a professional scientist and in that sense. I get many questions. If you have something to discuss about deuterium or hydrogen, you can go to the website called laszlogboros.com and there you can see the type of services that we deliver.
If there is a clinical scenario, then I usually direct them to anyone of our Dr.Shoffner or Dr. Patrick Osmond. They are natural [unintelligible 01:14:36] practitioners who can actually advise patients on deuterium depleting scenarios.
They are excellent colleagues and partners and they are excellent contributors to learn about deuterium depletion in the clinical setting and the clinical scenarios.
They have the positive and they have the advantage of getting feedback back from patients directly. I don’t because I don’t work with patients. I depend on these great doctors, and there are many others obviously who I work with, but in the Los Angeles area, they are Dr. Shoffner, Dr. Osmond. They actually do work closely with us.
Simply, looking at the science aspects just go to laszlogboros.com or if you have a clinical question you can address it to me and I will direct you to the appropriate medical practitioner. Other than that, it’s academics scientists and translational clinical type of complex work in and information delivery surface that we hope eventually will serve better health in the general population.
Ari Whitten: Beautiful. Dr. Boros, thank you again so much for coming on the show and thank you for the work you’re doing really. A pleasure and as I said at the end of the first show, I think you win the prize for most fascinating, most weird and interesting topic, I think, that’s ever been discussed on this show. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This was this was a lot of fun.
Dr. Laszlo Boros: Thank you so much.
Deuterium Depletion Powerful Health Hack For Energy, Cancer Prevention, And More, With Dr. László Boros Part 2 – Show Notes
The evidence on deuterium for health (7:32)
The best ways to test for deuterium (19:22)
How food affects your deuterium levels (25:55)
How water affects deuterium levels (36:23)