How chronic viral infections and chronic bacterial infections are linked with fatigue (and how to fix them) with Dr. Tim Jackson

Content By: Ari Whitten

Chronic Viral Infections, Chronic Bacterial Infections, Dr. Tim Jackson, theenergyblueprint.comIt is now recognized among fatigue experts that there are dozens of potential triggers for chronic fatigue — from gut issues, to psychological stress, to lack of metabolic stimulation (hormesis), to poor nutrition, and others. One of biggest triggers for chronic fatigue may be chronic viral infections or chronic bacterial infections. Some of the most common infections that trigger chronic fatigue are Lyme disease and Epstein-Barr virus, which, if not treated properly (or if your lifestyle habits don’t allow for optimal immune function) can become chronic and difficult to get rid off.

This week’s guest, Dr. Tim Jackson had been suffering from fatigue symptoms since childhood but it was not until 2009 he learned that he had Lyme disease. The antibiotic he got to treat the disease did not cure it and he dismissed the diagnosis as a false positive. In 2011, he got a second test and learned, to his surprise, that he tested positive for both past and current Lyme infection. This revelation lead Dr. Jackson to develop a holistic approach to heal chronic viral and bacterial infections in his clients.

Listen in, as Dr. Tim Jackson and I will discuss chronic viral infections and chronic bacterial infections, how they are linked to fatigue, and how you can fix them.

In this podcast, you’ll learn

  • The 4 strategies you need to get rid of chronic infections
  • The best supplements to get rid of chronic infections
  • Which lab is the best at diagnosing chronic infections
  • The best way to differentiate between acute and chronic infections
  • The best supplements to clear out infections
  • The best supplements to prevent infections

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How chronic viral infections and chronic bacterial infections are linked with fatigue (and how to fix them) with Dr. Tim Jackson  – Transcript

Ari Whitten: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Energy Blueprint podcast. This is Ari Whitten, and today I am with Dr. Tim Jackson, who is a doctor of physical therapy and also a nutrition expert and a gut microbiome expert, and also an expert on the topic of infections, which is what we’re going to be talking about today.

It’s a really exciting topic and has a lot of relevance to chronic fatigue, and we’re going to get deep into this today, but first, I want to just say hi to you, Tim.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Hey.

Ari Whitten: Welcome to the podcast. It’s a pleasure …

Dr. Tim Jackson: Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. I would love if you could just talk about your background a little bit because you have an unusual background. You went to school to be a doctor of physical therapy, and it’s not all that common for someone who kind of has that educational background to then branch out and go into health more broadly and develop expertise in some of these areas of expertise that you have, like nutrition, microbiome infections, and things like that. How did that all come about? How did you get interested in that and pursue expertise in those areas?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, so I originally wanted to get my MD, traditional medical doctorate, and I went to undergrad at Wake Forest University and did all the premed courses, majored in pre-med. I did fine academically, but at the same time, I had an interest in weightlifting.

When I graduated high school, I was 130 pounds soaking wet, so I got interested in weightlifting and exercise science, anatomy, physiology, and I did a lot of shadowing at the Wake Forest Medical School.

The doctor said, “You probably want to pursue a doctorate in a different field and just kind of combine the nutrition and exercise and functional medicine into that,” so I took that to heart and, you’re right …

Ari Whitten: Just out of curiosity, why did he advise that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because he knew that at that point I had already started learning functional medicine before it was called functional medicine, and it’s hard to just sit there and listen to a lecture where you know things are being taught wrongly and not speak up. I mean, you might do it for a semester, but after that, you’re just going to constantly be frustrated every day.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. You know, it’s so funny that you bring that up. I don’t know if you actually know my educational background, but I did premed, and then I went to medical school because I thought I wanted to be an MD, as well.

Basically, it was exactly what you’re talking about, because I had already been studying nutrition and exercise physiology and holistic health for 10 years at that point and, yeah, it was exactly that.

It was nuts to be in an environment, even in the hospital, seeing people with chronic diseases not being told anything about nutrition or lifestyle, just being prescribed one drug after another after another, and to be in classes in medical school, being trained as an MD, and literally not receive a single class on nutrition.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Ari Whitten: It was absolutely madness and, for me, having that background, it was exactly what you’re describing. It was just absolutely painful.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I remember once in my nutrition course we had a psychologist lecture to us, and he said if our diet had more than 20% protein, it would be on dialysis for the rest of our life. I was constantly in the dean’s office. I would send emails with studies, because they cherry-pick studies, obviously, to support what they’re saying and, yeah, if you have the end-stage renal disease, to begin with then, sure, that might happen.

Ari Whitten: That’s funny. I had that kind of exchanges with the studies, as well. There was one incident you just reminded me of that was really funny, where there was another student in the class who was … He wanted to conduct some kind of … Some research, some pilot research, on diabetes and trying some new drug to help people with diabetes manage their blood sugar levels, and he wanted research subjects to come in and help with this trial, and he literally sent an email out to all of the other medical students saying, “Hey, can any of you come help me and let me draw blood or take a saliva sample, or whatever, so I can do this research, and in exchange, I’ll give you all the donuts that you can eat.

“Like I’ll have a huge selection of donuts there, and you can have a bunch of donuts as a thank you for coming and helping me with my diabetes research.” I just, I could not hold myself back. I was like, “This is madness. You’re conducting research on diabetes while contributing to the diabetes problem.”

Dr. Tim Jackson: It sounds like something that would happen at Planet Fitness.

Ari Whitten: Exactly. It sounds like something that would happen on Planet Insanity where you’re just so disconnected from the causes of something that you’re doing something like that. Anyway, sorry I interrupted your [crosstalk].

Dr. Tim Jackson: No, no. That’s alright. I got my doctorate in PT, and there are more DPTs including functional medicine, nutrition, now. The best chiros and the best DPTs really kind of practice the same now. I was just meeting with a chiro a couple of days ago. He adjusts occasionally, but it’s more corrective exercise, biomechanics, nutrition, that sort of thing.

My first job out of my doctorate program was working with orthopedics, primarily athletes, high school, college, professional, and I realized that a lot of times, we could do all the joint mobilizations and soft tissue mobilization, but if we didn’t correct their, let’s say, pregnenolone levels, or subclinical hypothyroid levels, that the inflammation was going to chronically be there.

I also got interested in infections, because it’s very common; for example, in bilateral knee pain, to find mycoplasma antigen-antibody complexes. The work of Dr. Alex Vasquez, I started reading that, and that got me even more interested in infections and how they play a role in health.

Ari Whitten: Very cool. Let’s get into the stuff on infections. I think that was a nice segue into this topic. Let me start kind of making a bridge here with chronic fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome, in particular, by saying that there is actually a number of studies that have linked certain infections with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Yet, there seems to be some debate, and this is kind of a controversial area for a couple reasons: One, I have several colleagues that I know and clinicians that are under the impression that infections are really big deal when it comes to fatigue. They’re extremely common, they’re major triggers for chronic fatigue syndrome, and chronic infections are really common.

I know other people that are like, “Well, you know, we also have data testing for certain infections showing that these infections are not present in people with chronic fatigue syndrome,” so, yeah, they may be a trigger, but maybe they’re not present chronically.

Then I know other people, still, who are like, “Well, testing for these infections is very, very limited, and so there’s a whole bunch of different viruses and bacteria that we don’t even have tests for,” so there are certain people kind of saying, “Well, I’m getting great results treating people for infections even though we don’t have tests sort of verifying whether they actually have these infections or not.”

The link between infections and chronic fatigue syndrome

There’s a lot of complexity here, and there’s also a lot of differing opinions and so on, but having said that, there does seem to be a clear link with infections, at least it’s well established that they are a trigger for many people to get chronic fatigue syndrome.

What’s your take on that whole thing there?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I mean, I think the issue is, it’s kind of like with autism. People are looking and saying, “Oh, do vaccinations cause autism?” Well, that can be one trigger, but there are kids who are not vaccinated who have autism. I think there are multiple triggers and so many different variables involved. A lot of times the studies, at least that I’ve read, they’re looking for one virus or one pathogen, and it’s usually, it’s what Dr. Horowitz calls multiple systemic infectious disease syndrome.

These pathogens kind of live off of one another, and talk to one another, and they create biofilm around themselves, which is sort of a protective layer to keep the immune cells at bay. In addition to that, they’ll a lot of times sequester heavy metals underneath the biofilm as well, so I think there is definitely a connection between chronic fatigue and infections.

The issue is a lot of times people, they want to test just for Epstein-Barr or just for HHV-6, and I use a lab called Medical Diagnostics Labs, and they test for pathogens from viruses to bacteria to Lyme to mold. I had one guy come in my office, and he said, “I have HSV-1, and that’s it. There’s no reason to test me for anything else.” I did test him for other things, and it turned out he had mycoplasma and Lyme and parvovirus B19, so those infections.

One thing that people miss is … I learned this from Dr. Vasquez, is that they assume that if the IgM titers, our IgM antibodies, are high to a pathogen that it’s current, and if IgG is elevated, that indicates a past infection. If IgG is three to four times the top end of the range of normal, that usually in my experience indicates a currently active infection, and I get really good results by addressing those pathogens that are elevated.

Why pathogens and infectious microbes are pertinent to our health

Ari Whitten: Interesting. So there are some good details there. I want to dig into a lot of the details that you just mentioned there, but I guess let’s step back for a minute and kind of address the question, why are pathogens and these different infections so pertinent to our health and, more generally, obviously with chronic fatigue, but health more broadly, as well? What’s your take on that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So anytime you have an infection and the immune system becomes active, you’re going to produce, or your immune cells will produce cytokines, which are signaling molecules that interact with cells in the nervous system, and also the cells in the hormonal system. Those cytokines, even if your listeners don’t know them by name, when you’ve had the flu or a cold or whatever bug’s going around, that’s what’s making you feel bad. It’s not actually the pathogen itself directly.

So you have pro-inflammatory cytokines that cause inflammation, and you have anti-inflammatory cytokines. Ideally, you want to have them in balance. Most people, they’re concerned about, especially this time of year, getting the flu, and what it means short term, but if you look at the research, and I did some training with Dr. Kendal Stewart in Texas. He showed me all this research connecting different viruses to Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, ALS, dementia, things of that nature.

Those particular viruses, not to get too far off topic, are called neurotropic viruses, and they can lead to depression, brain fog, cognitive issues, and they turn on the microglial cells, which are the white blood cells in the central nervous system, and that creates a lot of inflammation that can lead to insomnia, centrally-mediated fatigue, meaning it’s sort of coming from the brain, and anytime you have inflammation, for example, we talked about the pro-inflammatory cytokines. Well, one of the nastiest ones is interleukin-6.

Even if we kill the bog and get rid of the pathogen, a lot of times the inflammatory cycle will still keep going, so you have to be aggressive and address it. In fact, when they do studies on mice and they want to study inflammation, they inject them with interleukin-6, tumor necrosis factor alpha, those nasty ones.

Typically, most of the drugs that address, say, Parkinson’s or MS or things of that nature, they’re very expensive and they don’t really get at the cause, but if you address the pathogen issue; for example, Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, he says a hundred percent of his patients with Alzheimer’s and ALS have Lyme and HHV-6. So it affects you as well because it’s going to cause pregnenolone steal, which I know it’s kind of more of a mitochondrial issue, but progesterone steal, as well, and you may be focusing on your adrenals, and you may get four-point saliva cortisol tests and your levels are through the roof, and sure, you may be able to take some adaptogens on a short-term term, but why are your levels that high?

I tell people, you know, we have to look at external stressors plus internal stressors. The external, we focus on, like we get stuck in traffic or something of that nature. Viruses, we typically don’t think of or, if we do, again, we’re more focused on the short term.

I was in the pharmacy the other day, and the pharmacist said, “Oh, have you gotten your flu shot?” I said, “Yeah, I take one every day.” He said, “What do you mean?” I said, “It’s called zinc and vitamin D.” They affect your health.

Another example I’ll give you real quick, I had a guy with a total testosterone of a thousand. I’m reviewing his labs, and I’m thinking, this guy’s going to be Superman. I’m expecting like Hulk to walk through my office door, and he came in basically in tears. This guy, like 6-2, 6-3, very fit, muscular, he was a trainer, and he’s like, “Dr. Tim, I can’t get out of bed.” He had mold toxicity, chronic infections, and so now he’s lecturing his clients on all of this, because, a lot of times, I tell people if you focus on getting healthy, you’ll lose weight, but if you focus on just losing weight, you may or may not get healthy.

I’m sure you’ve dealt with a lot of figure competitors. I’ve dealt with a lot of bodybuilders. After three or four shows, they have Wilson’s temperature syndrome. They have to get on thyroid meds, or people doing the stupid HCG 500-calorie diet, for crying out loud, don’t get me started on that, but I end up seeing those people. Yeah, they’ll lose weight in the short term, but I see them when they crash a year later.

The most common infections people are dealing with

Ari Whitten: Yeah. Very interesting. What are some of the most common infections that people are dealing with? There are so many things here. I think one of the things is the fact that, like you said, a lot of the research is really testing for only one infection. There seem to be some big limitations there. I have a friend who does a type of testing that he says it’s kind of energy testing. I’m really skeptical.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Is it ART?

Ari Whitten: ART, active release technique?

Dr. Tim Jackson: No. Autonomic response testing.

Ari Whitten: No. I don’t think so. He claims to even be able to do it at a distance, not even with the person present next to you. I’ve known a lot of people doing this muscle testing stuff in the past, and as you may know, pretty much all the research on it doesn’t really support it. He’s saying that he’s able to identify all sorts of other viruses that are present that we don’t have tests for. It’s interesting. I’m sure the answer to this question that I would get from him is very different than I would get from somebody who’s strictly evidence-based and says, “Well, based on the actual science, here are the types of infections.” What’s your take on the most common infections?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Let me make one little distinction. So there’s muscle testing, like applied kinesiology, and there’s energy testing, like Dr. Klinghardt teaches, which is autonomic response testing. If you were to ask me 10 years ago, I would’ve said it’s hogwash. The first person to detect my Lyme, it was with the ART, and is it a hundred percent accurate? No. There’s an MD down the road from me who does it. He knows the limitations of it, but he can save you hundreds of dollars on lab testing, or at least point you in the right direction, so sometimes I’ll send my patients there.

He has like 400 vials he’ll test. This guy’s graduated from Cornell Medical School. He’s no schmuck. He’ll help me kinda narrow down what I need to test for. The energy testing, even though it might look from the outside the same as muscle testing, is a bit different, but there is something to it, for sure, because I’ve just had too many patients experience it and have positive results.

Again, it’s one of those things that’s hard to study, and the studies will probably catch up later, but I think the energy testing’s very different than the muscle testing. In terms of the most common infections, definitely Epstein-Barr, HHV-6. Epstein-Barr, people tend to be more aware of, the kissing disease, and people tend to chase that one. That’s a prime example of some of the studies, but they focus on, “Oh, their Epstein-Barr isn’t high, so there’s no connection to infections.”

Well, there’s a zillion other viruses. Did you test for those? HHV-6, which is human herpesvirus 6, that’s one that we don’t have a lot of good therapies for yet, but it’s a nasty one.

Mycoplasma, which is not a virus, it’s a cell wall deficient bacteria, and they’re actually including it in vaccines now. They included it in vaccines during the Gulf War, and Dr. Garth Nicolson, that’s how he discovered it. Those three I would say are definitely common.

Lyme. Lyme is another one of those, even with the functional medicine testing, a lot of times is not accurate. You may test seven or eight times before you get a positive test, so a lot of clinicians I know will just treat empirically. I think it’s different if you’re going to use antibiotics or IV antibiotics, but if you’re using nutraceuticals, herbals, I think it’s better a lot of times to treat empirically.

Then the co-infections that go along with it, Babesia, Bartonella, parvovirus B19, all of those, but it gets into your metabolic rate as well, because as soon as your body temperature starts to drop just a little bit, your immune function drops. So a lot of people, they feel a benefit from the Far Infrared sauna, but part of that is not detox, it’s related to kind of whacking the microbes and viruses over the head.

What Autonomic Response Testing (ART) is involved in

Ari Whitten: Interesting. I want to just step back for a moment to the applied kinesiology muscle testing versus the autonomic response testing. Can you describe what actually the ART involves? What is that comprised of?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I’m not certified in it because most of my practice is virtual, but what it does is, it’s checking sympathetic versus parasympathetic response. Muscle testing is checking the strength of the actual muscle. So they may check your shoulder flexion strength and say, “Okay, you’re weak.” Then they may manipulate C-5, then they’ll retest you and say, “Okay, look, it’s stronger.” So that’s a whole different ballgame in terms of the autonomic response testing. It’s looking at … You’ll hold different vials of whether it’s parvovirus B12, Epstein-Barr virus, but also different supplements you can tell.

My friend tested me, and I was on Nature Throid, and he’s like you’re reacting to one of the fillers. Switch to Westhroid. I did, and I felt better. Is there a study showing that? No, but I can tell you I felt better. It’s, again, measuring the sympathetic versus parasympathetic response.

Ari Whitten: Is it with the person, in person?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Well, there are people who say they can do it via distance, or they’ll have you send in a saliva sample and test. I’ve had people tell me that their doctor had them send him a picture and they’ll test that, which I know gets kind of woo-woo, but it’s looking at your stress response to whatever supplement or medication or pathogen.

Ari Whitten: Got you. Yeah, I would say that I’m a little maybe biased or jaded at this point with that kind of stuff, because I’ve just seen so many dozens of practitioners who do that kind of stuff and have tried to tell me things via this type of muscle testing generally.

Generally, they’re using muscle testing, but some of them claim then to be able to do it at a distance and not even with you there in person, so it’s like energy testing of some kind, try to tell me things about like, your past life karma is so-and-so because I figured this out via energy testing, or so-and-so flower essence would be good for you, or this sound frequency of 538 Hertz would be good and I’m going to channel this sound frequency into your body.

I mean, I literally had someone tell me, based on this energy testing, “You’re deficient in the magnetic energy of the north part of South America”.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That’s a new one.

Ari Whitten: I’ve just seen so much wacky stuff of people kinda claiming to do this kind of testing that, at this point, I’m like, my personal opinion, I think a lot of these people, maybe there’s something to it. I mean the actual studies don’t really support it, but maybe there are some people who can do it in a good way, but my personal opinion on it is I think there’s a lot of people out there with kind of like guru complexes who want people to believe that they have magical mystical powers and are psychic and can see all these things that are unseen.

Anyway. As with any health treatment, there’s going to be placebo effects, so there’s going to be some portion of people who get tested by these kinds of people and say, “Wow, it’s amazing. It’s incredible. This person’s fixed me and no one else could.”

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Ari Whitten: Anyway, I’ll just express my bit of skepticism on that type of testing there. Having said that, maybe there’s some magic to it, quantum physics, they’re spooky action at a distance, there’s some weird stuff going on that we don’t really understand, so maybe.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I’ve found it’s a very, very select few number of people; for example, one of my patients talked to this guy at a distance, didn’t give him his history, anything, and he said, “You’ve had some dental work done recently on your third molar.” Sure enough, he had. He just listed off all these things, and there’s no way this doc could’ve known it.

Ari Whitten: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: This guy, he doesn’t promote himself as a guru or anything. He’s just like, this is the testing that I’ve come to use. I think there are a handful of people, but not nearly as many who claim to be.

Common effects that infections have on us that we’re typically not even aware of?

Ari Whitten: Yeah. Well said. I’m open to that, so we’ll leave that at that. Back to infections. What are some of the common ones, or common effects of infections, that a lot of people are not even aware of? Since there are limitations on testing, how can people get a sense of whether they have an infection going on or not?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Common symptoms are brain fog; fatigue, obviously; achy muscles and joints, or difficulty recovering from a workout, even if it’s a short workout; insomnia; dementia; Alzheimer’s. I’ve had people with ALS, Parkinson’s that really had advanced Lyme disease. So many different things I could go on and on about, but fevers are another common one, trouble concentrating. So a lot of neurological stuff can be related to pathogens, particularly viruses, but basically, anything related to inflammation.

In terms of the pathogens, we don’t have tests for, if you feel like you’re inflamed and you’ve addressed your gut issues and your toxicity issues, then you may be looking at a pathogen issue. There are certain tests where you can measure cytokines at baseline, and then there are tests where you can look at stimulated cytokine panels, but the research doesn’t really show that they’re that helpful at this time in terms of directing therapy or treatment, so pretty much …

We call it cytokine-induced sickness behavior, but not wanting to socialize, lack of appetite, trouble concentrating.

Symptoms like that are extremely common with pathogens and viruses, so it’s not just overall fatigue, but the things that kind of go with it.

Ari Whitten: Mm-Hmm. A lot of those symptoms you mentioned are pretty common among people with chronic fatigue syndrome. Are there any kind of, maybe two or three, that are really unique to infection specifically? Or would you say that infections are just that common in people with chronic fatigue syndrome, that maybe a huge portion of people have them?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I would say that they’re that common in people, and a lot of it has to do with, one, in utero transfer, so from mom to baby. I work with a lot of couples who are trying to conceive, and I tell them, “Now, let’s put in some work now and it’ll pay dividends down the road,” because if you and I catch a virus right now, sure, it’ll have negative effects on us, but the blood brain barrier isn’t fully formed until around age four, four-and-a-half, and so if you get a virus that can get into the nervous system of a newborn, you get developmental delays, behavioral issues.

I mentioned the term neurotropic viruses before, viruses that like to get in the myelin around your nerves, so a lot of times tinnitus, or ringing in the ears, balance issues, sensory integration issues, are all related to pathogens.

What happens is, you’re creating these cytokine storms, which is just a huge inflammatory reaction, and those molecules can damage the mitochondria, the batteries of your cell, which I know your audience is familiar with.

We’ve got to protect the mitochondria, but we’ve got to also [inaudible] the pathogens, but as one of my mentors said, “You can’t kill your way to health.” He said if you’re having to constantly treat the pathogens … You want your free T3 to be at least three-and-a-half or higher, and you want to go after body temperature.

Body temperature, if it’s not responding to thyroid, it could be SIBO, hydrogen sulfide gas will down regulate your body temperature. So you have to look at things like that.

Ari Whitten: Just to clarify a couple things there for people who may not have caught that, when you’re saying T3, we’re talking about free thyroid hormone. That’s the active hypothyroid hormone for people who are not familiar with the terminology. The reference range is … I know there are some different reference ranges, but what’s your take on the normal range for that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Based off of the LabCorp ranges, which I think are 2.8 or something, to 4.something. You generally want 3-1/2 or above, but you also have to consider the other thyroid markers, like reverse T3. So even if your free thyroid hormone, your active thyroid hormone, which you can think of as the gas pedal, even if it’s 3-1/2 or above if your reverse T3 is elevated, or your thyroid antibodies are elevated, that can negate some of the effects of a good free T3 level.

The best way to differentiate between acute and chronic infections

Ari Whitten: Mm-Hmm. Great. I know you mentioned at the beginning of this a little bit about the different antibodies, the IgG and IgM, but what’s the best way to differentiate between acute and chronic infections? Because I know there’s … This is another place where there’s still some debate and disagreement among clinicians.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So if your IgM is high and you definitely have an acute infection, but you can have an infection that I wouldn’t say is acute, but it’s ongoing, and that’s typically when you see the really elevated IgG and, again, Dr. Vasquez’s work, and Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum, they both work a lot with chronic fatigue, and they say as you see those IgG levels drop, people will start to feel better. That’s been my experience.

I’ve had people go from being on disability to going back to work by cutting their IgG levels in half. Those inflammatory levels are affecting them neurologically from a musculoskeletal standpoint, and obviously, the more inflamed you are, the more difficulty you have detoxing. It’s just a vicious cycle.

The best way of testing for systemic and chronic infections

Ari Whitten: For these systemic or chronic infections, what’s the best way of testing for them? This is another area where there seems to be disagreement about the best way of testing for them, and there seem to be some limitations in some of the different tests. What you’re talking about is something that I don’t think I’ve heard other clinicians talk about. You’re talking about some type of test that can test for a huge variety of different stuff. Is that correct?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, so the lab is MDL, Medical Diagnostics Lab, and that’s all they do is check for pathogens. They don’t check thyroid or anything else like that. It can go through your insurance, so it’s good for that. You can check IgG and IgM antibodies, two different pathogens, say, through LabCorp or Quest, but to my knowledge, for example, the MDL, they check for I think four different types of candida and three different types of mycoplasma, so you get a lot more bang for your clinical buck testing that way.

You can test for HHV-6 and then, I didn’t mention these before, but there’s HHV-7, HHV-8, parvovirus B19, cytomegalovirus we haven’t talked much about, CMV. That’s another common one and even a few different types of molds such as Aspergillus.

Ari Whitten: Is this like a standard battery of tests? Do they test for all of these? Or they’re all individual tests?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, they’re individual tests, but you just check off on the requisition which markers you want tested for. Just three tubes of blood no matter what. Three tubes of blood. You just check off which markers you want.

Ari Whitten: Are there some limitations with like certain viruses maybe are not, or bacteria, are not actively found just floating around the bloodstream but maybe kind of are localized in different areas of the body?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So getting back to the neurotropic viruses, they won’t always show up in blood, but they may have tinnitus or ringing in the ear, balance issues, cognitive or concentration issues. So those viruses are kind of in the nervous system, but they may or may not show up in the blood.

Ari Whitten: Very interesting. This MDL lab is, in your opinion, by far the best for assessment for pathogens.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I think so. For sure, for viruses.

The difference between a localized infection versus a systemic infection

Ari Whitten: What’s the difference fundamentally, I guess we’re stepping back here, but between a localized, like a gastrointestinal infection, versus a systemic infection?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Systemic infection is going to be more in all different systems of the body and in the bloodstream, so it’s exposing itself to all different types of tissues and organ systems, whereas if it’s just a GI dysbiosis, then it will have systemic effects in terms of creating inflammation, but it’s not necessarily exposing itself to the different types of organs or organ systems in the body.

You can have a multifocal dysbiosis where candida may have been in the gut for a certain period of time, but then now it’s spreading. In females, UTIs are common. In males, it might be prostatitis. It can be sinus infections, respiratory infections with mycoplasma, for example.

Cytokine-Induced Sickness Behavior

Ari Whitten: Interesting. You mentioned cytokines before, and this is kind of a mediating factor for a lot of the symptoms, and there’s this term, cytokine-induced sickness behavior. Can you talk a bit about that and explain what that’s all about?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, so it’s basically when you have an acute infection, like let’s say I got the flu today and I’m on the couch, I’m running a fever, I have a runny nose, I’m coughing, I don’t have an appetite, I don’t want to socialize, brain fog, either I want to sleep all the time or I can’t sleep at all. Those are all symptoms of a cytokine-induced sickness behavior, and it’s basically your body’s way of down-regulating your energy or to divert your energy into healing, and so all these other areas of the body that are important normally, they get kind of put on the back burner while your body’s healing or addressing the infection.

That’s what kind of steals your ATP, or your energy production, is that things that are … Your body’s in that fight-or-flight mode, trying to address the acute infection, and until that gets taken care of, these other functions may get put on the back burner.

Ari Whitten: Yeah, I mean, there’s also, on the mitochondrial level, there’s this literal taking of oxygen instead of using oxygen to shuttle electrons down the respiratory chain and produce ATP, now oxygen gets diverted in order to produce superoxide and the free radicals to combat some of these pathogens, so there’s literally almost a, it’s like a pseudohypoxia. It’s almost like suffocating at the cellular level, and the cells are not producing an energy because they’re shifting these resources towards fighting the pathogen.

This makes a lot of sense in the context of an acute infection. It’s a protective response. It’s not a mistake that we feel fatigued and all these other symptoms, but where it becomes really problematic is when it happens chronically with some of these chronic systemic infections.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. Exactly right. Well, put.

Some of the most effective ways to address infections

Ari Whitten: Let’s get into some of the nitty-gritty sort of practical stuff of … And I guess we can focus on some of the more common infections here, as far as what can be done about them?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. A lot of people focus on prescription antivirals, Valcyte, Famvir, different ones, but those, typically it takes a lot longer to bring down someone’s viral titers or viral levels, than it does to, say, knock out a candida infection. The prescription antivirals, they can be hard on the liver and kidneys, so you have to monitor liver and kidney function, but they also can be very stressful to the mitochondria.

An immunologist friend of mine, she tries her best to not use the prescription antivirals because of that reason, but I use some pretty hefty dose of homeopathics to address things on sort of immune system entrainment level, and then I also use a lot of nutraceuticals, herbals, things like Berberine, colloidal silver occasionally, but you have to also address the biofilm, which we kinda talked about, but biofilm …

Plaque on your teeth is biofilm, so dentists were the first to discover biofilm, but it’s a substance that is made to kind of protect the pathogens from your immune cells.

A lot of times, underneath there, you’ll find heavy metals, toxic heavy metals, so there’s this kind of synergy between the pathogens and the metals. So breaking up the biofilm, that typically involves things such as systemic enzymes.

The synergistic relationship between pathogens and heavy metals

Ari Whitten: You know what, sorry, let me interrupt one second. I’m just curious, why do they kind of have this synergy with heavy metals? What is that all about?

Dr. Tim Jackson: If I understand, or if I remember correctly, the positive charges from the two valent metals like mercury and lead will negate or hide from the positive charges of the immune cells. So they’re kind of repelling one another.

The other thing is that the metals can be used to lower or suppress different types of immune cell function, and so a lot of times what you’ll see, let’s say someone’s taking an antiviral or an antimicrobial at a certain dose, and they’re not addressing biofilm. Let’s say they start addressing biofilm. They may have to lower their dose of that antimicrobial because now it’s better able to reach or have access to the pathogens.

A prime example of that is in cases of GI issues. Someone may be taking, let’s say, biocide to kill off whatever bug. It’s having some effect but, for example, with Lyme, if you don’t address the biofilm, you basically need 600 times, or 600% greater strength of the antimicrobials. A lot of my patients that are really sensitive, they’ll Herx just by giving them something to break open the biofilm.

Ari Whitten: Actually, just explain that to people, that term that you just used, since most people might not be familiar with it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The Herxheimer?

Ari Whitten: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The Herxheimer reaction is a die-off reaction, which typically means that you’re … Let’s say that we’re talking about candida. You’re killing candida, it’s releasing its cell wall, its internal compartments, and your immune system will react to that.

Technically, I guess I shouldn’t use the term die-off with viruses, because they’re never living, per se, but it simply just means when you’re addressing a pathogen, you’re going to create … And this is what I see oftentimes is that people are already inflamed, and they go in and they start killing stuff, which creates more inflammation, and so I tell them we’ve gotta bring down the inflammation first, ’cause when we start killing things or addressing pathogens, it’s going to create even more inflammation.

That’s going to make you feel worse, so a lot of times I’ll have people start the supplements on a weekend, a day when they’re not working, or they don’t have a lot going on. It’s hard to predict. Some people, I think they’re going to be in the bed for a few days when they start the supplement, and they’ll call me up, “Oh, this changed my life.”

Other people that I think, they’re very constitutionally strong, they work out a lot, I’m like, “They’re not going to have any problems.” They’ll have a lot of reaction. You really can’t predict, so I just kind of prepare people for the worst.

How to break up biofilms

Ari Whitten: Got you. Biofilms. How do we break them up?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes. Systemic biofilms, I use systemic enzymes such as Nattokinase, Serrapeptase, or Boluoke, which is lumbrokinase. Boluoke is probably the most potent, but also the most expensive, but the most important things are that you take them on an empty stomach. By themselves, they can help lower inflammation, supplements like [inaudible] from Germany, but if you’re using them to address pathogens, you know, I typically have people take them on an empty stomach, wait 30 to 45 minutes, and then take their antimicrobials. Those three are the best in terms of breaking up biofilm.

Essential oils, I’m not an essential oil expert, but there are a few essential oils that can break open biofilms. Biofilm is made up of calcium, magnesium, and sometimes iron. Sometimes people say, “Oh, well, you shouldn’t take magnesium because you have biofilm,” but it’s really the lesser of two evils. Magnesium is involved in so many biochemical reactions. I think you’d be silly if you’re low on it, not to take it. The biofilms, that’s how I address the systemic biofilms.

With the gut biofilms, there’s a handful of products, InterFase from Klaire Labs, Biofilm Defense from Kirkman Labs, and people, again, they take those on an empty stomach. If you do a stool test on someone where you don’t break open the biofilm, and then on the repeat test where you do break open the biofilm, you’ll see much different results.

Ari Whitten: Interesting. The biofilm, sort of anti-biofilm protocols, are these done before, after, during the treatments with the antimicrobials? And what types of antimicrobials do you tend to use? I’m sure that’s not … Like you don’t have one general sort of supplement that you use, but it probably differs depending on virus versus bacteria and what specific infection it is. I know you mentioned Berberine and a few others. Can you list those off again?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes. Berberine’s one that’s really good. It also has blood sugar balancing effects, but you don’t want to use it for too long because it can decrease the commensal bacteria in the gut, but colloidal silver, there’s a supplement from the Venus Flytrap plant called Carnivora that I like to use.

Ari Whitten: Sorry, real quick on that colloidal silver. I know I’ve seen some kind of scandals with that, like the different brands have been tested, and a lot of them have found not to contain any or contain like minute amounts. Do you have a particular brand that you can trust on that one?

Dr. Tim Jackson: The one that I’ve had good clinical results with are two. One is Argentyn 23, and another one, and this is one I haven’t used, but an MD that I have a lot of respect for uses it. It’s called [inaudible] silver. I haven’t used that one, but he’s had great results with it. You’re right. I’ve read a lot of those articles, as well.

The other thing is, some people may already be high in silver, so you’ve gotta kinda take that into account.

Ari Whitten: Interesting. And then also the side-effects of turning blue and all that, be cautious with the dosing.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, well, that’s the dosing, but it’s also the duration. I never take people past eight to ten weeks on it. Typically, it’s the brands that are kind of lesser quality, but I tend to rotate the antivirals, which [inaudible] think of more bacteria, and yeast is developing resistance, but viruses can develop resistance, as well.

The carnivore from the Venus Flytrap, silver, Berberine, Biocidin, which is a combination of different herbals, and Dr. Chris Shade from Quicksilver Scientific, he has produced a liposomal Biocidin. If your listeners aren’t familiar with liposomes or liposomal supplements, it basically just means they have increased bioavailability or increased absorption.

When you’re doing that, an important note would be you may not need as high of a dose as if you’re taking a non-liposomal form.

Those, and then I mentioned the homeopathics. I use a company called DesBio. They have many different strengths. The strength that I typically use is the 10M which, in some European countries, is actually prescription strength. I typically have people do one to two rounds of those along with the antimicrobials, so we’re kind of addressing it from two different angles.

Then to your question about when do we use the biofilm? We use it in conjunction along with the antimicrobials, antivirals, fungals, antibacterials. I would have people take those on an empty stomach and, again, some people you have to titrate up very slowly. They may have that die-off or inflammatory reaction just from the biofilm disrupter.

People will take the antimicrobials 30 to 45 minutes later, and that’s how we use them in conjunction with the antimicrobials.

Ari Whitten: Got you. A couple questions, specific questions. What do you think of propolis? Is that something that you use?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I have a lot of people use it in a diffuser to help with mold and mycotoxins in the air. I’m not very familiar with the dosing … Or I’m not familiar enough with essential oils to prescribe it correctly in terms of the internal dosing.

Ari Whitten: Well, propolis isn’t an essential oil. It’s actually from beehives.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Okay.

Ari Whitten: It’s in capsule forms, and it has some antimicrobial properties. I was just wondering if … I know some other clinicians who are big on propolis, and I’m just wondering if that’s a commonality.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I’ve used it before, but more in the essential oil diffuser sense, and to help with mold and mycotoxins, but I have heard a lot of people use it. If I’m not mistaken, I believe it may have biofilm disrupting properties, as well.

Ari Whitten: Yeah, I think it does. One thing I haven’t heard you mention is like immune boosting compounds. For example, colostrum, or medicinal mushrooms, in particular. Do you think that there’s a role for those in combating chronic infections?

Dr. Tim Jackson: There is. One thing I’d like to point out, medicinal mushrooms are very potent, but a lot of people have the mindset of kind of boosting the immune system, but I want to kind of have them think of it differently, and think of it as modulating, because you may have one part of the immune system that’s underactive and another part that’s overactive, and you could induce an autoimmune type of reaction, so it’s more so balancing.

With the medicinal mushrooms, if someone has mold, and a lot of the people I deal with do have mold and mycotoxins, people like Dr. Joe Carnahan will tell you it’s not a good idea to use the mushrooms just because of the similarity with the mold and mycotoxins, but I do use a lot of the immune boosting supplements like colostrum, L-lysine. I use PRP, proline-rich polypeptides, quite a bit.

Ari Whitten: Injectable.

Dr. Tim Jackson: No. That’s PRP, platelet-rich plasma, you’re thinking about.

Ari Whitten: Oh, okay. Say it again, what does it stand for?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Proline-rich polypeptides.

Ari Whitten: Proline-rich polypeptides. I haven’t heard of that.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s derived from colostrum, and there’s been a ton of studies, I think at the University of Texas. They used it in a lot of HIV patients, and I have a whole book on it somewhere, of peptide immunotherapy. Neurobiologix, Dr. Kendal Stewart’s company, has it. Numedica has it. It’s basically … I call it like an adaptogen for the immune system.

It helps to modulate cytokines. You can take it year-round prophylactically, and then if you have an acute infection, you can take it in higher doses. It’s derived from colostrum, but it has some different properties than just taking colostrum by itself.

Ari Whitten: Is that the main compound in colostrum that’s having this effect? Or one of a few? I think it also has lactoferrin.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, it has lactoferrin and it has some of the immunoglobulins. We test people for their total IgG levels, and then their IgG subclasses, there are four of them.

If you’re deficient in one or two of those, that can leave you open to infections. So people that have kind of borderline low levels, stuff like colostrum will help; otherwise, IVs such as IVIG, intravenous immunoglobulins, can be important, but the colostrum also has IgA and some other immune-boosting compounds in it, as well. You mentioned lactoferrin. That can be quite helpful either on a rotational basis or just year-round.

Ari Whitten: Got you. It sounds like, to me, there’s sort of four prongs to this. You have the homeopathic stuff, you have the antimicrobial stuff, you have sort of immune modulating compounds like we just talked about, and you have the biofilm disrupters. Is that accurate?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That’s where people will go wrong is that they don’t correct the terrain, they don’t optimize the thyroid, things of that nature. Cortisol may be high relative to DHEA, so you need to look at all those avenues.

For example, we mentioned the IgA. Well, secretory IgA that protects our mucous membranes, if it’s low, one way to raise it is to balance your DHEA to cortisol ratio. That’s where you have to look at the immune system, but also the other systems that impact it.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. There’s so much to that, what you just said there. That could be the subject of 10 podcasts by itself.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Why some people seem to get chronic infections and others not

Ari Whitten: With that in mind, I guess one broad question that I have for you is why do some people seem to get chronic infections, and others not? What are the differentiating factors there? Is it because these people have a weakened immune system because of overall poor lifestyle and nutrition habits that are kind of keeping their system down and letting that virus or bacteria kind of have its way a little bit more, and then it becomes chronic? What’s going on there? Why do some people clear these and other people get it chronically?

Dr. Tim Jackson: A lot of times in utero transmission from mother to baby is a big one. The average umbilical cord has between 250 and 300 known carcinogens. So you’re basically born immunosuppressed to some degree today. Then when you think about being born vaginally versus C-section, and then whether or not you’re breastfed, so those two things, doesn’t mean you’re doomed to have bad health, but you have to work a little bit harder in terms of boosting or modulating your immune system.

Then childhood stress can have long-lasting effects, but any sort of stressor that keeps you in that sort of fight-or-flight response, that’ll make you more predisposed to pathogens. Low thyroid, or subclinical low thyroid. People have probably heard about, oh, if I raise my iodine levels it’ll help knock down my pathogens, and that’s kind of getting at the whole thyroid temperature relationship to pathogens.

Other people, you’re right, it is sort of their overall lifestyle, what they’re eating, their circadian biology, what they’re doing to detox on a long-term systemic basis, not some sort of harsh juice cleanse or anything, but just providing the body with the correct nutrients to detox.

Then I would say as hormone levels change, such as if DHEA drops, that can predispose you to infections. Then we talked about the IgG levels, the immunoglobulin-G levels. Some people, you can have what’s called CVID, common variable immune deficiency, where those immunoglobulin levels are kind of chronically low, and those people tend to get the IVIG every four to six weeks.

Ari Whitten: They need to get IgG immunotherapy. Is that what you’re saying?

Dr. Tim Jackson: IVIG, so intravenous immunoglobulins.

Ari Whitten: Immunoglobulins. So you need to get that IV therapy every few weeks.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Every four to six weeks usually. The primary component is the IgG, but it also has IgA in it, because there are a lot of people that are low in IgG, will be low in IgA, as well. That can be important.

If you have borderline low levels, that’s where you can use things like colostrum to help, but other immune supporting nutrients, vitamin A, I like to use the retinoic acid form from Klaire. Certain people have polymorphisms where they can’t convert beta-carotene into active vitamin A. Then we talked about iodine and how important that is.

The other thing that people know about glutathione from a detox perspective, but it also is a very potent antiviral. If you’re low on glutathione, or you have trouble recycling glutathione to the reduced state, supplementing with something like liposomal glutathione would be helpful in terms of immune …

Ari Whitten: Do you prefer the actual liposomal glutathione over N-acetylcysteine?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I do, and I’ve had some people, and I can’t explain this; I’ve asked people for about the past six years, some people I can give them liposomal glutathione, they do fine with it. Do great. I give them NAC, and they have horrible reactions.

Ari Whitten: Really.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. You would think, okay, NAC’s the precursor to glutathione, should have a similar effect, but it doesn’t, and I still don’t know why.

How Ari prevents coming down with a cold when overexerting himself

Ari Whitten: Very interesting. I want to wrap up here in a sec with just kind of preventive measures, but I have one quick question, a personal question, on a few experiences that I’ve had recently. One thing for me that I commonly do, and I get myself into trouble, is when I’m feeling really great, oftentimes I’ll really overdo it with physical activity.

I have long history of doing this; especially during summertime I want to take up at 5 am and go surf for three-and-a-half hours, and then I want to go workout, and then I want to go rock climbing, and I just have no self-control, just because I love being outdoors, I love being physically active.

If I do that kind of thing three or four days in a row, I’ll kind of wipe myself out. Oftentimes when I do that, like three or four days in a row, then I’ll come down with a cold. The last, I would say, three times that I’ve started to get a cold or the flu or whatever it is, started to get something, within the first day of it, I start to notice those initial symptoms, I do this kind of cocktail of stuff that I’ve developed of using glutathione and monolaurin and lots of lemon and lemongrass from my garden, and lemon balm, which all have antiviral properties, and a number of other different compounds, astragalus, and echinacea, the compounds from gaia herbs, like elderberry. I do like 10 different things.

The last three times this has happened, I don’t get sick. It’s literally like I’m about to get sick, and then the next day I still feel like something in my sinuses and my upper respiratory tract, and my lymph nodes are swollen, but I don’t actually get sick, and I don’t have to go through the whole sickness process. It just kind of gets nipped in the bud within the first day or two.

Then I start to second-guess myself. I’m like, “Wait. Was I really getting sick? Or was that just some kind of weird, like did I have a food allergy?” It’s either the protocol that I’m doing is either so effective that it just knocks things out within a day, or my mind is playing tricks on me or something. I’m just wondering if you have any experience on, is that possible to knock things out that fast?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. You say you listed about 10 things. Monolaurin, lemon balm, I guess you’re doing zinc, I’m assuming.

Ari Whitten: Yeah, the zinc acetate lozenges from Life Extension.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So all those things for sure. If you were just doing zinc and vitamin C, I’d say, “Ah, it might be some placebo, or might’ve just been an immune IgG food reaction,” but with all the things you listed, that’s pretty hard for a pathogen to survive in the presence of that, because overall, outside of that, you don’t tend to get sick unless you overdo it, right?

Ari Whitten: Yeah, for sure.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So I would say, yeah, it’s the monolaurin, the combination of synergy of those supplements kinda working together and not [crosstalk]

Ari Whitten: Okay, well that’s cool. It’s good to know that I’ve … I mean, I wish I’d stumbled across this years ago, would’ve saved myself a lot of sick time. I’m like kind of amazed that it’s even possible to knock it out that quick.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. No, I think that’s a good combination.

The measures that help clearing out or preventing infections from breaking out

Ari Whitten: Cool. On a final note, what do you think are preventive measures that pretty much everybody should be doing to either kind of help clear out any infections that might be present or, more importantly, to prevent getting them in the first place?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I would say the PRP, the proline-rich polypeptides. It’s a spray, you can use sublingually or swish it around in your mouth. I think that’s a good prophylactic supplement to kind of prevent infections from [crosstalk].

Ari Whitten: [crosstalk] all the time?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes. The dosing is what changes. So if you’re just kind of using it ongoing as a preventative measure, four sprays a day, but if you have an acute infection, I have people do up to four sprays four times a day. It can really help, like if you have a fever, without taking Tylenol or things like that, it can help to knock the fever down.

L-lysine is an important amino acid to help kind of prevent viral infections. Making sure your thyroid’s optimal, which that gets into looking at cortisol, as well. I know that’s a whole other podcast. That…

You can do colostrum. Again, it has some extra benefits on top of the PRP.

Circadian biology, I struggle with that the most.

I’ll get into work mode and stay up past when I should, but paying attention to your circadian biology, getting direct sunlight I think is huge, not just for the vitamin D sulfate, but for getting the photons and nitric oxide, because the other thing is, if you’re taking all these great supplements and nutrients, but they’re not getting delivered because of poor vasodilation, you might have issues with nitric oxide, and that’s one way that, like intranasal lasers work. They raise nitric oxide. Sun, raising nitric oxide. I think that’s important.

Then some sort of meditation or relaxation, whether you go to a flotation tank, whether it’s laying on the BioMat. Then I’m really big on the sauna. It just has so many benefits, not just for immune system and detox, but cardiovascular health, lifespan issues. I think the sauna is great.

Then keeping simple sugars, obviously, to a minimum, and making sure you’re getting plenty protein. One other supplement that’s not directly related to the immune system, per se, but essential amino acids, I think help people just in general regardless.

Obviously, digesting protein is very energy intensive, so if you can give the raw materials the body, I think that helps on so many levels.

Then depending on your polymorphisms and your stress levels, glutathione, liposomal glutathione, or transdermal glutathione can be very good.

Ari Whitten: Awesome, man. One thing I’ll just comment on real quick. You mentioned saunas, that you’re a big advocate of that. I’m a huge advocate of sauna use. Rhonda Patrick has written some really great stuff on that as kind of overviewing all the different benefits that are supported by science. I personally think that we’re just scratching the surface,

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, yeah.

Ari Whitten: As far as what the science currently knows about the benefits, but I definitely have heard from a lot of people in my community that when they finally took my advice, got the sauna, or either got it or found a sauna at some local place that they can use multiple times a week, that that was a really key needle mover for them, and I think it has, like you said, benefits for the immune system and overcoming infections and so many other things.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, absolutely. For sure.

Ari Whitten: Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Thanks for having me on.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. It’s been great to have you on, and this is, I think, a really critical conversation to have because it affects so many people. Hopefully, all these people out there that kind of have been hearing some stuff about infections have a whole lot more clarity on this whole topic now and how to deal with these infections.

If somebody wants to work with you, how do they reach you? Where can they contact you?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes. My website’s being redone, but it’s My email is dr, Dr. Tim, drtim, then the numbers [email protected].

Ari Whitten: Awesome. So it’s drtim072981@gmail.

Awesome, man. Well, thank you again so much. Really been an honor to have you on, and really appreciate you sharing your wisdom with my audience.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Awesome. Thanks for having me on.

Ari Whitten: Alright. Take care.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Alright.

How chronic viral infections and chronic bacterial infections are linked with fatigue (and how to fix them) with Dr. Tim Jackson  – Show Notes

The link between infections and chronic fatigue syndrome (7:58)
Why pathogens and infectious microbes are pertinent to our health (10:17)
The most common infections people are dealing with (15:06)
Common effects that infections have on us that we’re typically not even aware of? (24:24)
The best way to differentiate between acute and chronic infections (29:37)
The best way of testing for systemic and chronic infections (30:50)
The difference between a localized infection versus a systemic infection (33:19)
Cytokine-Induced Sickness Behavior (34:27)
Some of the most effective ways to address infections (36:39)
The synergistic relationship between pathogens and heavy metals (38:28)
How to break up biofilms (41:37)
Why some people seem to get chronic infections and others not (52:35)
How Ari prevent coming down with a cold when overexerting himself (56:56)
The measures that help clearing out or preventing infections from breaking out (1:00:17)


To learn more about the work of Dr. Tim Jackson go visit his site or contact him on email [email protected]

Treating Fatigue By Detoxing Your Environment With Dr. Evan Hirsch │ Chronic Viral Infections, Chronic Bacterial Infections, Dr. Tim Jackson,
I invite you to listen to another expert, Dr. Evan Hirsch, on healing chronic viral infections and chronic bacterial infections.
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Dr Guillermo Ruiz, is an expert on how you can boost your immune system with botanicals to help you prevent chronic viral infections and chronic bacterial infections.


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