In this episode, I am speaking with Jane Hogan about her health coaching practice, where she specializes in helping middle-aged and older women recover their vitality. She speaks about using breathwork and other practices for speeding up recovery from chronic stress related fatigue, and a number of other interesting topics.
Table of Contents
In this podcast, Jane and I discuss:
- How thoughts and emotions translate into chronic pain (and how to reverse-engineer that!)
- Why the way we eat matters just as much as what we eat (and how our stress levels impact digestion)
- How we can make peace with the habits of perfectionism, people-pleasing and fulfilling parental expectations
- How breathwork can be a bridge to connect the mind and body that creates calm in our daily lives.
- The best breathwork practices for somebody who’s dealing with chronic pain, chronic tension in their body
- How to get started with breathing for calmness (full instructions provided!)
- Top 3 biggest needle-movers when it comes to making a recovery from compromised health
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Ari Whitten: Hey, there. This is Ari. Welcome back to The Energy Blueprint Podcast. With me today is Jane Hogan, “The Wellness Engineer”, who blends science and spirituality to help people release chronic pain using the mind, body, and breath so they can become empowered creators of their own health. Her personal experience of reversing, crippling rheumatoid arthritis using natural solutions inspired her to leave a 30-year engineering career, and become a functional medicine certified health coach, certified yoga teacher, and wellness educator. I really enjoyed this podcast. I think that particularly for people in the demographic of 50-plus-year-old women you will resonate a lot with what Jane has to say and you’ll find her message to be beautiful and inspirational. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to the show, Jane.
Jane Hogan: Thank you so much for having me, Ari. I’m so excited to be part of your podcast today.
Ari: Yes, it’s a pleasure. First of all, I have to ask, you are the wellness engineer and you left a 30-year engineering career to become a health coach. Why? What happened? What was the personal catalyst for that change?
Jane: I think all of us have a personal story when we make big changes like this. I was working [unintelligible 00:01:28] doing my engineer thing. I was a structural design engineer and teaching structural design, and then I say my own structure started to fail. I started to get this debilitating joint pain, and I had just come through a really stressful year. It was so bad I immediately would have to put my arm in a sling and then I could hardly walk on my feet. I got, “Okay, I guess I need orthotics.” I really felt like someone had a voodoo doll of me and was sticking pins in. It was just moving around so much and I thought, “Okay, I just need for the stress to be over, take a vacation and I’ll be fine.”
I did all that and I wasn’t fine. I got worse. Actually from the time of the onset of the first symptom, within three months I was barely able to walk and I had so much joint pain. I had no grip strength. I couldn’t make a fist with my hands. Didn’t know what it was. Nothing was showing up in my blood work, but I had this, it sounds funny, but I had this download in my rock bottom moment where I felt like my life was falling apart.
I didn’t know what was going to happen in the future. My husband and I had looked forward to the freedom years for so long. Our last had just left the house. We had an empty nest. I felt like everything I’d worked for, nothing was going to be available to me because I didn’t have freedom in my body. I got this download that said, you’re going to figure it out and you’re going to share it with other people. I had this faith that I would figure it out. Engineers are problem solvers, so I started doing my problem-solving stuff and started with food, and that made a difference, and then I went on to lifestyle changes and that was a bit more of a difference. I studied functional medicine.
I thought I wanted to learn about functional medicine so I studied health coaching with The Institute for Functional Medicine. It’s not with The Institute of Functional Medicine, but the Functional Medicine Coaching Academy which is aligned with The Institute for Functional Medicine. I learned a bit more. I was really intrigued by the mind-body medicine aspects, and I’ve always been fascinated with that. That took me a little more further into my journey. I started looking back like, “What’s going on in my mind?” The mind is really controlling the body, and so what’s going on in my mind? I had to look right back to when I was a little girl and where certain thoughts were coming from. I’ll leave it there for now and see where you want to go from there.
Ari: Did you get yourself well?
Jane: I did. I reversed the symptoms. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis along the way, and gradually reverse, reverse, reverse. I never did go on any medications, and I was so fast fascinated by all this, and I wanted to share it with other people. I started telling people I was working in the engineering field and it wasn’t going over really well when I said, “Try giving up gluten.” [laughs] People were like, “No, I don’t want to do that.” I thought, you know what? My heart isn’t doing that anymore, and I really just want to follow my passion now and help other people. I left my engineering career in 2020, when everything was happening in the world, and I started helping people one on one, I got a membership. I’ve since started a podcast and just loving. I feel like I’m on purpose. I feel like everything led me to this and it was all beautiful. Every part of the journey was beautiful and still continues to be.
The root cause of chronic pain
Ari: Nice. Lovely. What’s your overarching paradigm as far as chronic pain and what causes it, how do we resolve it?
Jane: Well, I’ve had my own ideas as I’ve gone further along into the journey and then studying the work of people like Joe Dispenza and Dr. Bruce Lipton. I got to speak to Dr. Bruce Lipton for my upcoming summit on becoming pain-free, and all kinds of other people. I really came to understand the role of the mind in how our body responds. Because our subconscious mind is really running our body all the time. We don’t run it. Now, there are other things that can happen externally, right? There can be toxins, and in fact, in the summit, it really became apparent with a lot of the speakers.
There’s two buckets that are the root causes of chronic pain. One is stress, which comes from thoughts and it could be subconscious or conscious, it could be external things that are happening, but our thoughts about them create stress in our body. Then the other bucket is toxins. Toxins, it could be chemical toxins. It could be mold. It could be parasites and things like that. There’s these two buckets of root causes of chronic pain, and it does seem to be true from everything that I’ve seen. In my clients I see it all the time. It’s stress.
I work with a lot of women and it seems like a lot of us have gone through a lifestyle of perfectionism and people-pleasing. I’m an engineer. My father was an engineer. My father wanted me to be an engineer. I’m an engineer. That kind of stuff. We’ve done all this people-pleasing, perfectionism. I had to be a working mother along with running the chess club and president of the swim club and the meet manager for the swim meets and do all of this stuff. Where does it come from? Where does this come from? A lot of these things come from thoughts and beliefs from before the age of seven that get imprinted into our mind and we just roll with it as we go through life.
Ari: How do you conceptualize the physiological process by which those kinds of thoughts and emotional patterns get translated into a chronic pain state?
Jane: Well, there’s the chemical side. Our thoughts release chemicals, cortisol and norepinephrine, epinephrine, and dopamine for if things are going well. Our brain is releasing chemicals, which our cells respond to. Then there’s also our thoughts create feelings. We have feelings and then our feelings are actually vibrations in the body. Our cells, again, and all of our systems and our organs are all responding to these vibrations. It’s really interesting with all these other people I’ve had on talking about vibrations and the role of a sound therapy and light therapy and all these different therapies that are vibrational in nature.
It’s very interesting. I think that the whole spirituality and this new, I call it the new science, it’s not, it’s been around for a while, but quantum science, all of this is merging together, and we’re seeing now because it used to be that spirituality was science was opposed to it, but I believe now this quantum science is merging together. It’s like, “Yes, that is right. We are energetic beings.” I love the work that you do with energy as well. You know about this as well, that we’re energetic beings, right?
Transform chronic pain by becoming more aware
Ari: Yes, absolutely. From the psychological perspective, talking about the thoughts and emotions and how that translates into chronic pain, in terms of your personal story and in terms of the clients that you work with, what have you found to be the most effective ways of addressing that and transmuting it or reframing it?
Jane: I think first of all starts with slowing down so that we can be aware. First of all, awareness. Awareness of your thoughts. Even going before that, I know you are involved with breathing. I love your breathing course. When we can slow down enough to even notice our breath and what we’re doing with the breath because that has it has an effect in the body. Slowing down and awareness, what am I thinking all the time? What’s my come from? What things are annoying me? What things are frustrating me? These annoyances and frustrations are little low levels of stress. It keeps us in that constant fight or flight which then creates disease in our soul, in our mind, which then creates disease in the body. It really filters out that way.
Ari: As far as therapeutic methods and strategies that you found to be helpful in healing, what do you think are the most helpful methods to address that?
Jane: It depends on where someone is. We know that inflammation, so when someone has pain and they got inflammation, most inflammation does begin in the gut. Now, I say begin but I think it’s that very upstream point. Initially, when someone’s got pain and inflammation, we need to get that fire under control. Yes, of course, we need to address, all right, if you’re eating processed foods then let’s stop throwing that fuel on the fire, and let’s work with the gut and get that healed. There’s so much we can do with getting the gut healed, again, starting with the breath. I teach breathwork as well and I love that we can even begin with the breath.
Even beginning with the breath, beginning with how you eat, feeling calm when you are eating means that you’re going to absorb more nutrients. You can eat all the best food in the world but if you are eating in a rush state, and you’ve got the news on and checking the phone and feeling angry, you’re just not going to digest very well. You’re not going to absorb those nutrients. I think rather than telling people, “Let’s work with your mind.” People are more open in the beginning to talking about, “Let’s start with calming down while you eat, and let’s put some good food in there.” Of course, that’s going to help. It did help with me too.
It is a great place for people to start but I want people to understand that it doesn’t stop there. It’s not like, “Okay, eat the food and you’re going to be fine but still go on being ticked off with your spouse all the time and then annoyed with your kids and wondering why people aren’t treating you right.” All of those things. Look at yourself then and see, okay, when these things are triggering you, it’s really something inside of you that needs to be addressed. What is that fear? Because, ultimately, it’s creating a fear within you of something. What is that and can you let it go? What if you could let that go and just feel calm?
When we do that, we get more and more into the parasympathetic state, that rest, digest, repair state where we can heal. I work a lot with that, just let’s get ourselves into that state as much as possible. There are some people who come to me, Ari, have already been trying a lot of food things and they’ve got a lot of fear with food and they’re like, “I can only eat five things.” I’m like, “Okay, let’s forget food journals for a while. Let’s just focus on your mindset where you are. Your number one goal is to feel good. Notice when you’re not feeling good, and then feel good.” It seems too simple but it’s so powerful.
Ari: Absolutely. I’m curious, as far as your own personal journey. You mentioned this thing about your dad wanting you to be an engineer and having all these expectations on you to be the president of the chess club and all these other things you listed off. What’s nice is to reflect back on them. I see you reflecting back on them with light, with a smile. That to me suggests healing. To me it suggests that whatever trauma or stress and negativity associated with all of that external pressure that was on you, you’re in a good place with it. You’ve healed that within yourself and now you can not only express it, you can communicate it with awareness, but you can communicate it with lightness and with a smile.
I’m curious what you feel was instrumental in getting you there and if there’s any ways that you can take from that and generalize to other strategies as far as how they can maybe heal or come to terms with a lot of those same stresses and pressures that they have dealt with, because I think that a lot of people, maybe, in particular, women, though, I’m sure men too, I personally identify a lot with what you’re describing, but I think women, in particular, might identify especially with what you’re talking about. Anything that you can take from your own personal transformation, and healing and reframing of all of that that you would communicate to others?
Jane: I’ll do that. Ari, thank you for reflecting back to me that I’m looking happy while I talk about these things because I don’t always see it myself. Yes, I think and I can look back at this time, the tipping point that caused the inflammation to show up and pain to show up in my body. I was brought back because my mother had died, was the main event and I had to deal with the house, but also the sibling stuff which I think brought back young stuff. I’m the third of four kids and older siblings and all of that.
I was really angry and blaming and I realized I had to do a lot of internal work around forgiveness, forgiveness of myself and forgiveness of other people, my siblings, and just saying, “Everyone was doing the best they could with where they were, with their set of circumstances and their awareness at the time.” Man, does that ever just take out the heat around that. Also, self-forgiveness too. I did the best I could. I came up with these coping mechanisms, the best I could. That was what I knew at the time and so I did it. That’s fine. That’s where I was, but I don’t need to keep doing it. I don’t want to take any of that history with me. I can just bring what I want into my future.
I think that’s really powerful too, is understanding that we are the creators of our future and if we keep thinking all the same thoughts and thinking in the same way that we used to, we will keep getting the same thing. If you’ve got physical pain and illness and you don’t change what you’re thinking, you’re going to do the same thing and it will make you make the same decisions. I’m going to go eat the whole sleeve of cookies instead of just having one or two. It doesn’t matter how much I drink tonight, you know what? That kind of thing is just–
You make better decisions when you are coming from a place of creatorship. “Okay, what do I want to put in my future? Who do I want to show up as in my future?” I’m the one that has control of that. I didn’t know that for the longest time. We learn linear physics in engineering. We didn’t learn quantum physics. Seeing things from this totally different perspective is so fascinating, exciting, and really helps us understand how powerful we really are.
Overcome chronic pain through breathwork
Ari: Talk to me more about breathwork and how you perceive– I know you talk a lot about how breathwork connects mind, body, and spirit. Tell me about that.
Jane: I know you know this too. The breath is the fastest way to create calm in the body but it also links. I believe it’s like spirit in the body because when we’re in spirit in our body, that’s from our first breath to our last breath. When the breath is gone, the spirit is gone. If you’ve seen a deceased body, you know it’s just a shell. The person’s not there anymore.
When we’ve got breath, we are alive, our spirit is in the body. The breath connects the physical body and the mind.
It works both ways and it’s one of those systems in our body that we can control consciously. We can’t say, “Let’s digest now.” We’ve got no control over that but we’ve got control of our breath and we can use the breath to consciously create a state of calm in our body. The breath can also do the other thing. It can create [unintelligible 00:20:03] running, I got to go fast. That kind of thing. The breath can create that state of calm in the body.
It’s, I believe, the number one detox in the body. When you learn how to breathe properly and you’re breathing through your nose, you’re breathing into the belly, you’re breathing light and long you know about that breathing light and long, then all of our systems are optimized. We’re going to deal with those toxins better. All of our organs are going to work better. That’s really visceral and connecting in the body. We can also use the breath to just calm that mind when we focus on how does the air feel as it goes through the nose and through our throat? How does it feel when our belly is going in and out?
We can just use that as a way to calm our mind and get us right into this present moment where we’re not ruminating over the past or worrying about the future, and really that’s all we have, is this present moment right now. The breath can really help with that. I think it’s just fascinating and an amazing gift that we have, that we can control it and use it to connect our mind and our body together.
Ari: Absolutely. This idea of noticing the breath and the simple act of noticing the breath and how that might translate into some physiological effect is interesting for a couple of reasons. One, I think it’s so simple that people might be skeptical of it and people might have heard what you just said and think, “Oh, yes, I’ve heard that a million times before. Yes, whatever. Something that simple can’t possibly benefit me.” It’s also interesting from the frame of thinking about it from an evolutionary frame and from the perspective of your nervous system. Let me frame it like this.
If I’m here on my phone and I’m eating a meal and I’ve got the news on and I’m getting notifications on my phone of people texting me, and one of my employees wants something from me and, “I need this by the end of today,” and I’ve got all these kinds of thoughts going through my head, I think you can think of that state as one end of the spectrum. Then on the other end of the spectrum, you might have a state where you are calm, where you’re not really thinking about anything. You’re looking out your window, enjoying the view and you close your eyes and notice five or six breaths. Just pay attention to the physical sensations, the inner sensations of air moving in and out of your nose. What is that doing physiologically? Why is that profound?
Jane: I think it’s profound because it allows us to slow down. That’s the mind part, but physiologically, when we slow down the breath, one thing that happens is that our heart rate variability goes up because our heart goes into resonance. That’s physically happening. Tons of science behind that too. The other thing that’s happening when we’re breathing in a way, and it can only happen really breathing slowly, in a way that we are meeting our metabolic needs. We’re not breathing too much because when you breathe too much, you actually don’t get enough oxygen going into the blood cell or to any cells in the body. In a weird paradox, it’s the carbon dioxide in the blood cell that shuttles the oxygen into the cells.
If you don’t have enough carbon dioxide, the oxygen’s not going to get to the cells anyway. Physiologically, those are some things that are going on. It allows the body, this vehicle, to operate more efficiently and do what it’s supposed to do and have us in that calm state of where we’re supposed to be. We’re supposed to be in that parasympathetic state most of the time. I want to point out something else though, Ari. You talked about slowing down the breath and just noticing 5 or 10 breaths. I find what happens a lot is, and maybe this is the connection with the soul, is that you sometimes in thoughts will bubble up. It’s almost like you get little messages. That’s what I find.
You’re quiet, quiet, quiet. You’re slowing down enough. Then something pops in. It’s like, “Ah, okay.” Remember that for afterward. Slow down again. Notice the breath again, get calm again. Then another thought pops in. It’s like, ah, okay, there’s another little message. I find it a way to actually get downloads. Maybe that’s what happened to me in that rock bottom moment too. It was a point of surrender almost where there was nothing else. I give up. There’s nothing else I can do. Then it’s like your soul can talk to you.
I know it sounds a bit esoteric, or maybe think about it as your higher wiser self or think about it as your super consciousness, your consciousness that’s not distracted by these everyday ego things of the mind. It’s this consciousness that has nothing but our well-being. That’s all that it wants. Whatever is good for us. That’s when you can get those downloads when you get quiet and you can listen.
Ari: Excellent. Are there any specific breathwork practices that you’d recommend to somebody who’s dealing with chronic pain, chronic tension in their body?
Jane: There’s so many beautiful breathwork practices. Hard to pick one. If you’re brand new, just start with just slowing down. If you are a chest breather and then you’re a mouth breather, start with those. Start with breathing in and out through the nose. Breathe into the belly, and just don’t get taking these big breaths. Just light breathe into the belly and feel good about it. I do find it helpful, just a little thing that I used to find hard when people would say breathe into the belly. How? I can’t do it. Start with an exhale. I found this hugely helpful. Starting with an exhale by pulling the belly button back towards the spine first.
Then when you inhale, you can pull it, we’re not really pulling it into the belly. We’re pulling it into the lower parts of the lungs, which causes the diaphragm to go down, which makes it seem like the belly’s pushing out, and the belly is pushing out but makes it seem like we’re belly breathing. Just start with that. If that’s where you are, just do that and don’t get stressed about it. Don’t get into like, “Am I doing it right?” No, just breathe. Just notice it. If you’re taking that time to just breathe and notice, you’re already creating that state of calm, and then you can go a little bit further with it, and maybe you might want to then do some more advanced stuff.
There’s all kinds of pranayama with yoga, different alternate nostril breathing, things like that. Bumblebee breath, just even humming while you breathe is really calming, because the vagus nerve vibrates and gets toned. That can help because the vagus nerve is the parasympathetic branch of the nervous system. I like to use imagination. I like to imagine energy flowing. Coming in through the crown, as I’m breathing. I’m imagining that it’s the breath.
I’m imagining the breath is coming in through the top of my head, through the middle of my head, through the throat, through the heart, through the solar plexus, into the belly, and then exhaling down through, imagine us going into earth and then pulling up from the earth and just doing this cycle, just imagining the breath is going up and up and down. It’s a very energizing type of thing to do. It’s just imagination. Just using your imagination and visualization and just staying calm is the most important thing.
Not to get uptight with how many should I count? What should I do? Just to start off with, just stay calm. There’s other things you can do when you want to get a bit more advanced, but I know you had your own experience with feeling stressed about breathing. It’s almost like when people get afraid of food, we don’t want anyone to feel like that it’s a normal thing and we just want it to feel calming for you. That’s really the best starting point.
Ari: Excellent. Every different health specialist that I speak with on this podcast generally has a specific area of specialty that is their unique target, their target demographic of people with a particular kind of issue that they’re dealing with, that they are uniquely affected at. What would you say is that for you?
Jane: For me? I feel like it’s what I know. It is women who they’ve got to this point in their life where they should be free, but they’re not free because of physical issues. A lot of my clients have gut stuff or they may have joint pain, things like that, and they know there’s something inside and they know that it shouldn’t be there and they know that they want more. They’re also lots of times lacking in energy. It all goes together. It’s funny, I have a lot of teachers and nurses that are clients because they’re people that have been giving to other people all the time.
They’ve been real givers and really have never looked after themselves and they know that they got to do something. They know it’s time that they need to look after themselves because they can’t keep giving to people. They’ve gotten in pain, they’ve got no energy, they can’t give to people anymore. Well, I help them see let’s look inward at you, and let’s get you in a place where you’re feeling very loving towards yourself. You’re feeling, you can focus, take time to focus on yourself, take time to focus on feeling good. I incorporate breath work.
I incorporate a lot of mindsets and I talk about this manifestation and how the person you became comes from the thoughts that you thought before and if you want to be someone different, we got to think different thoughts. We might work with replacing thoughts, so different ways of doing that through journaling, affirmations. I do a lot of guided meditations for my clients just to replace their thoughts because we’ve got all these thoughts. They just keep circling around, over and over again. And so one way we can reprogram that subconscious mind which is where a lot of them are coming from is through repetition.
Repetition but I also like to pair it with feelings as well, so a feelings are really the most important thing. It’s not just like, oh I am lovable. It’s not like that. Let’s feel love. Let’s do some breathwork where we focus on love and we expand it and really feel it in your body and teach your body how to feel it, so that in an instant you can come back to that feeling. Then that’s creating that harmonious feeling in our body where it can heal and it just feels good. When people start doing this, just feels good to feel that feeling in their body.
Ari: If you were going to leave people listening to this podcast with maybe your top three or four things, you’ve spoken a lot about a lot of different things from toxins to breathwork to nutrition. Some of which you’ve covered more in depth and if you were going to say, Hey, for this particular demographic of people that you just mentioned, here are my top three recommendations based on my own personal experience, based on working with hundreds of clients, here are the top three things that I’ve found to be the biggest needle movers for getting your health, your energy back? What would those be?
Jane: Well, slowing down is definitely one and my tool for that is breath work and just we don’t have to call it meditation, we just call it just slow down and notice your breath. That’s like a great starting point, and to do that, tie that in with stuff that you do already do it before meal times or while you’re eating and that helps with that as well. I think understanding that we are in control of our environment, so I think a lot of people when they get diagnosed with an illness, think that it’s well, I was told it’s not reversible, it’s to add, you’re going to have to live with this and learn to live with the pain and all that.
I think having hope, so seeking out stories of other people that have healed, knowing that it is possible and then changing your environment. You are the one that’s in control of your environment and so the environment includes the thoughts that you’re thinking, the people that you surround yourself with, the food that you’re eating, the toxins, the things you put on your skin and your face and the air that you breathe, all of these things, understanding that the environment is within your control.
The cells respond to the environment. Our DNA, less than 2% is responsible for permanent coding. The rest they’re genes that are like the [unintelligible 00:34:47] switch is going up or it’s going down depending on the environment. Understanding that environment. I don’t know if I’ve articulated that really well. Slowing down, have hope, seek out stories of hope, and then understand that you are responsible for your environment including your thoughts and all these other things as well. I think then you can come from a position of power instead of a position of being a victim.
Ari: Beautiful inspiring message. I really enjoyed this, Jane. Thank you so much for coming on the show and tell people where they can get in touch with you, follow your work or work with you.
Jane: Thank you so much. Well, can I talk about the summit that’s coming up?
Ari: Yes, absolutely.
Jane: I just want to mention that the Becoming Pain-Free Summit. I almost forgot about it.
Ari: I think my brother’s a speaker at the summit.
Jane: He is. This summit is all about helping people have hope and inspiration and get the tools to help them address the root causes of chronic pain. It’s like all of the things that I wished I had had all in one place when I started instead of me taking years to figure it out. There’s all kinds of fantastic speakers. Your brother is one of them. Bruce Lipton, Dr. Sue Morter, Tom O’Brien, some really great people. I love how many of them have done an experiential session so you can like experience whatever their area of expertise is and just have a little moment right there where you can feel what it’s like to work with whatever sector it is that they’re working with. That’s July 18th to the 24th. It’s free.
Ari: Beautiful. I’ll try to get this podcast out as soon as possible and we’ll have a link on the podcast page to sign up for the summit.
Ari: It’s free, correct? You’re giving away all this information for free.
Jane: Yes, it’s free. All kinds of great gifts as well. If anyone wants to find me, my website is Jane Hogan health, my Instagram, Facebook, YouTubes, all @JaneHoganHealth and I have a podcast as well called Wellness by Design all about intentional living.
Ari: Beautiful, and I love the tagline, again, the wellness engineer. For everybody listening, the Becoming Pain-Free Summit, say again, the dates July, what did you say?
Jane: July 18th to the 24th.
Ari: July 18th through 24th. It’s all going to be free. We’re going to have a link for it on the podcast page for this episode which will be at theenergyblueprint.com/hogan, H-O-G-A-N.
Ari: Jane, thank you so much for coming on the show. This was really enjoyable and thank you for sharing such a beautiful, inspiring message for everybody but for especially women in that demographic, I think will resonate with this in a strong way. Thank you so much for coming on. I really enjoyed it.
Jane: Thank you so much for having me on your show, Ari. It’s absolute honor for me and I love talking about this. As you know, it’s like I was born to do it. I got the download, so thank you for helping me fulfill my mission.
Ari: Beautiful. Thanks so much for coming on. Talk to you again soon.