How to Boost Sexual Energy And Your Physical Energy with Susan Bratton

Content By: Ari Whitten

How to boost Sexual Energy and your physical energyHow does sexual energy relate to your energy levels?

Tune in this week,  as I have an out of the ordinary podcast with the remarkable sexpert Susan Bratton who is a trusted hot sex advisor to millions of people all over the world. She’s sort of like the Dear Abby of sex. Her knowledge is extensive, and I promise you that you will be blown away with her take on energy sex and how you can use this to improve your love life and your energy levels.

This is not something we’ve delved into before, and I think you’re going to love what we have in store for you today.

We are going to get into the six essentials of energy sex. I think as you get into this you’ll see the relevance of all these concepts that we’re going to talk about to fatigue and to energy enhancement more broadly, outside of sex, but this is a really key piece of the puzzle when it comes to your overall energy levels.

This is outside of my typical conversations that I have, which generally involve geeking out on science. Nutrition and lifestyle and circadian rhythm and all that kind of stuff.

In this podcast we will cover:

  • What energy sex is.
  • The 6 essentials of energy sex
  • How porn and masturbation influence your sex life
  • How you can use sexual healing to overcome past trauma
  • What ejaculatory control is and how that can impact your energy levels
  • Two free gifts she has for you (“How to be Instantly Hotter and Sexier” and “The Sexual Soulmate Pact”). You can get access to your free gifts on this page, below the interview links. (And by the way, they’re packed with wonderful content to improve your relationship and sex life).

Warning this podcast will cover some topics that are rated R at times. If you are sensitive to discussions around sex, I suggest that you do not to listen to this podcast. 

Download or listen on iTunes here

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Listen to the podcast outside of iTunes here

Watch the interview here

Your free gifts from Susan!

The Sexual Soulmate Pact

How to Be Instantly Hotter and Sexier

How to boost your sexual energy show notes

What Energy Sex is (2:28)
What the different terms for sexual energy are (5:57)
How sexual energy can be measured with science (8:45)
Where sexual energy comes from (11:36)
The right way for women to get an orgasm (12:30)
How body shame and sexual shame shapes our relationship with sex (13:51)
What sexual meditation is and why men are quick ejaculators (14:49)
What the expanded orgasm practice is (17:20)
What the G-spot and the P-spot are (22:46)
How men can break their penises and how they can increase length firmness and ability to get and stay hard. (26:58)
Susan’s take on masturbation (27:27)
How masturbation to pornography affects sexual energy (27:51)
Why vibration can be a turn on (28:30)
Why the notion that ejaculation considered the only right way of having an orgasm and why it should not be. (30:15)
Why masturbation to pornography can be unhealthy (37:48)
How often you should ejaculate to stay healthy and have high energy levels (40:25)
How love making really is (42:40)
How women can feel when their partner doesn’t ejaculate (45:05)
How you can channel your sexual energy (47:15)
The true act of love making and how it impacts your sexual energy (48:44)
The act of role play and how people often ruin the sexual energy by acting like porn stars (51:03)
The beauty of sexual connection in love making (52:00)
How women can pick up on a man’s attraction to her through subtle facial expressions (53:14)
How lack of information about sexuality influences the sex life (57:03)
Some amazing gifts from Susan to you (59:40)


[content_toggle style=”1″ label=”Click%20to%20see%20the%20transcript” hide_label=”Hide”]How to Boost Sexual Energy And Your Physical Energy with Susan Bratton

Ari Whitten: Hey there everyone. This is Ari Whitten, back with The Energy Blueprint, and today I have a very special guest for you and we’re going to do something pretty unique. This is not something we’ve delved into before, so I think you’re going to love what we have in store for you today. I’m here with Susan Bratton, who is a trusted hot sex advisor to millions of people all over the world. She’s sort of like the Dear Abby of sex.

We are going to get into the six essentials of energy sex. I think as you get into this you’ll see the relevance of all these concepts that we’re going to talk about to fatigue and to energy enhancement more broadly, outside of sex, but this is a really key piece of the puzzle when it comes to your overall energy levels. It’s kind of a taboo thing and normally it’s outside of my typical conversations that I have, which generally involve geeking out on science. Nutrition and lifestyle and circadian rhythm and all that kind of stuff.

So we’re going to get into some kind of taboo stuff. If you are sensitive, if you’re easily offended, maybe cover your ears at certain points, or maybe this isn’t the one for you, but I think that if you are into sex if you’re into having better sex and better relationships, I think you’re going to love this podcast.

So, welcome Susan, thank you for joining me.

Susan Bratton: Well, with that lead-up Ari, I guess I’m going to really have to deliver.

I love the idea of energy sex. Thank you so much for deciding to have that conversation with me. People don’t talk a lot about the energy of sex. So it got me really … I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately because I’m launching a new program called the Sex Technique Club. It’s a new sex technique every month, and I recently did a survey of men and women. And I gave them, I don’t know, 25 different sex technique names and I said, “Tell me which ones you like the most, rank your favorites and rank your least favorites.”

Energy sex was right up in the top five for both men and women. So people are really interested in the idea of energy sex, yet they have no … But then you say, “What is it?” They like, “I don’t know, it just sounds really good.”

What Energy Sex is

Ari Whitten: Yeah, so perhaps we should start there. What the heck is energy sex?

Susan Bratton: Well, I think you have to really have a conversation about how it … how there are so many facets of energy. There’s your sexual energy, which we’ll talk about, there’s sexual meditation, energetic meditative sex, there’s sexual healing, which is a form of energy, there’s the energy that comes from masturbation. I’ve got some interesting facts about sexual energy and energy sex and masturbation, and orgasm. It has a huge component to orgasm and, also, you can play with your sexual energy in lovemaking.

So I want to really hit a little bit of all of those things, and I want to talk about the difference between what is sexual energy and what is energy sex? Energy sex is that last thing I said. It’s making love using your turn-on and your energy and your desire for each other. You can even do it without touching someone. I save that for last because it’s just so intriguing.

Ari Whitten: Mmm.

Susan Bratton: And please, Ari, as many times as possible throughout this conversation, do that. “Mmm.” Because that’s just going to raise the sexual energy.

Ari Whitten: Perfect. Yes.

Susan Bratton: That handsome low voice of yours. So what’s sexual energy, really, that’s what you asked me. What sexual energy is, is your life force, it’s your libido, it’s your creativity, it’s your passion, it’s your zest for life. All of those things, because if you net it out at the end of the day, we are wriggling little worms on a planet here to procreate. That is our thing we are supposed to do as human animals.

Our sexual energy is what creates our desire, it creates our will to live, it creates why men go to war and why women make themselves beautiful, and all of these things, all these trappings of civilization come down to … Even eating. It still is to keep us alive so that we can procreate. And so energy sex, sexual energy is core to who we are as individuals. When you don’t feel creative, when you don’t have passion for something, when you’re not turned on by life, then you are most likely sick, ill, of poor health, in some way.

Because if all things were good and you were as healthy as you humanly could be, you’d be horny and turned on, and what’s so interesting is that we’re born turned on, we’re born with sexual desire and sexual energy for life and lust, and we die that way. It’s only, what happens in between to tamp it down, that makes it go away. So if you don’t have sexual energy right now or you want more sexual energy, that is making yourself more healthy and more connected to your sensual self.

What the different terms for sexual energy are

Ari Whitten: Yeah, beautiful. I want to interject something that I think is useful, which is this idea of sublimation or transfiguration or transmutation. There are lots of different terms for it, but there’s this concept that’s been around for thousands of years and has emerged in different traditions all over the world from Hindu tantric traditions to things like qigong and Taoist traditions, to more of a Western psychological tradition with people like Freud and even like, it’s emerged even in the personal development movement around Napoleon Hill and other people have spoken about it. It’s really this idea that we have this energy in us, which they have different names for, and it’s this sexual energy or libido.

Susan Bratton: Chi, Prana.

Ari Whitten: Or Chi, yeah, exactly. It’s there and depending on how we use it, with regards to sex or if we transmuted or sublimated or whatever, or move it up different energy bodies and channels in our system, we can do different things for us. But at the core, it’s kind of this idea that this is the energy of life and that it fuels creativity, not just the act of creation of new life, but even mental creativity and your passion and work and your relationships, just so many things.

It’s kind of a nebulous concept, it’s kind of like encompasses a lot of different stuff. It’s not totally clear on the science how this … We don’t have randomized, controlled study saying, “This energy equals overcoming fatigue or something to that effect.” The fact this has just been around in so many traditions all over the world for thousands of years, and so many people talk about it, for example like guys who don’t masturbate for a few weeks or something notice they have all this amazing energy all of a sudden, and they don’t have anxiety anymore.

Susan Bratton: Some. Some do.

Ari Whitten: Yes. Or you don’t have ejaculatory orgasms or whatever, there’s some kind of connection there. It’s not totally clear what it is, but I’m wondering if you can speak on that to some extent?

Susan Bratton: Yeah, we’re going to talk about that on many different levels as we go through each of these six essentials for energy sex. So I’ll be … That’s what I’m going to be talking about with each one of these facets. So you mentioned masturbation and ejaculatory choice or control. I’m going to definitely get to that as an example, we already talked about life force.

How sexual energy can be measured with science

There’s another thing, too, that I think is really good. A lot of people want this to not be a woo-woo conversation, they want this to be a measurable, scientific conversation. I’m not the expert in that, but I have a very good book I’d like to recommend for people who want to understand more about things like the arc field, the T-field, the L-field, all of these … What people now say are more measurable energetic fields of our body, that power us.

Cyndi Dale wrote a really good book called The Subtle Body. So if you’re interested in the science behind the measurement of sexual and other kinds of energy of the human body, I’d recommend that book. It’s just terrific, and I have some articles on my website about it as well. You can always go to and just look up sexual energy, I’ve written a lot about it.

There’s another thing I want to talk about, too, and that is when we’re talking about energy we’re talking about light energy, we’re talking about the energy of sound vibrations, we’re talking about breath work. These three modalities are another way that you can increase your sexual energy. Now, there are some people that don’t want more sexual energy. A really common example of people that I know that don’t want more sexual energy are the partners of people who are very ill.

For example, a 65-year-old man who’s still a horn dog, he wakes up with a boner every day, yet his wife is having double mastectomies and she’s not in the mood to have any sex at all, and so he has to shut down his sexuality because of his partner, and he loves her, and he doesn’t resent her in any way about that, but he really has a lot of sexual desire that masturbation doesn’t get that taken care of for him because he’s lonely and he misses his wife, but she doesn’t really want to touch him because she’s not feeling like, “Oh, affection and then he’ll want sex and I can’t give it to …”

So it really messes up your sexual energy. So when we’re talking about getting more sexual energy, I just want to let you know that if you’re one of those people who’s either ill yourself, and this illness can be emotional, physical, and they’re always a combination anyway. But if you are that kind of person who’s like, “How can I turn off my sexual energy?” I’m not here to help you with that, I’m just here to be sensitive to it. I’m here to help you amp up the power.

Because that’s what I do. I help people get more sexual energy, cultivate their sexual energy, cultivate their turn on, feel into the power that comes from being great in bed, having awesome sex, and having incredible, explosive, orgasmic pleasure, connecting enrapture to another person. That’s what I’m really here to talk about today.

Ari Whitten: I love it.

Susan Bratton: Me too.

Where sexual energy comes from

Ari Whitten: So where does sexual energy come from? How do you think about it, how can we leverage it, how do you increase it?

Susan Bratton: Well, you increase it through your fantasy, you think about sexy things. You increase it through taking care of your body and feeling good in your body, through appreciating all the marvelous things that your body can do. You do it by clearing blocks that have settled into your enteric nervous system, wherever they may be in your body. If there’s something holding you back from fully feeling everything in sex, you remove your emotional blocks to completely connecting with another person. You become aware of where you’re getting stuck and you look for solutions that help you unstick it.

We’ll be talking a little bit about sexual healing and we’ll talk about goddess massage and the P-spot and some things like that that really help clear that energy.

The right way for women to get an orgasm

So fantasy is great. Thinking about things that turn you on get you turned on. Making sure that your hormones are in good shape, that you’re working at optimal hormone levels, or doing what you can to support your hormone system. You’re breathing deeply when you’re making love. I was talking to a girlfriend of mine the other night and she said that she had such an intense orgasm that she broke a blood vessel under her eye. I said, “My God, this is not the right way to have an orgasm, my girl.”

A lot of women, especially when they are trying to have an orgasm, they’re clenching down, they’re holding their breath, they’re like trying to come, and actually what I tell people who do that is that it’s the opposite that makes you come better. It’s the opening, thinking about your yoni, which is your vulva or your vagina, it’s a Sanskrit word, it’s a sweet word.

Opening your yoni like a lotus flower, opening yourself to your pleasure, instead of trying to go get it, you let it come out of you. Your desire is inside you right now. All you need is within you now. It’s all there. And if you can’t connect to it, it’s because it’s being covered up by things that happened to you in the past.

How body shame and sexual shame shapes our relationship with sex

My gosh, Ari, I mean we have body shame, we have sexual shame, there’s so much sexual abuse, there’s religious oppression, there’s societal oppression, there’s the cultural oppression that comes from man to woman, woman to man, whatever it might be.

So, we have to overcome all those things. So, understanding that, that you’re not broken, you’re just, your channel’s not open to feeling and opening to your pleasure.

You would be surprised at how quickly you can open yourself to more pleasure by just bringing that feeling through your body and looking your lover in their eyes and connecting souls in that way and feeling yourself. So, I’ll get into even more techniques as have that conversation, but those are some of the very basics, are opening, breathing, looking, connecting, feeling, and moving everything.

What sexual meditation is and why men are quick ejaculators

Ari Whitten:    Nice. Okay, so sexual meditation. That was one of the six keys.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Ari Whitten: So what is that? Is it like orgasmic meditation, are you kind of meditating with the feeling of an orgasm, or I guess I should let you explain it.

Susan Bratton: Oh it’s okay, I like your guesses. Yes and no. So let’s see, I just want to check my notes because I like to be very thorough about the things that I want to tell you. So, one of the things is that orgasm releases your tension. So an orgasm reboots your nervous system, just like rebooting your computer when it gets slow and grainy and noisy. What happens is that you have a lot of tension and you tend to – what Wilhelm Reich would have called armor yourself – you get stiff.

For a lot of men, one of the reasons they’re quick ejaculators is that they’re actually tight assess. They’re so used to going out and kicking butt and doing all this stuff, and then when they go to make love to their woman they’re just like so tight. They’ve got tight psoas muscles and they’re not rocking their pelvis, they’re not moving and dancing and shuckin’ and jivin’. So they come too fast.

(If you want to know more about how you can lower your stress levels and feel less tight then go listen to my podcast with Mark Waldman on how to eliminate negativitly, stress and anxiety.)

What you really want to think about with your sexuality is letting yourself just completely reset from your sexuality. What you want is this level of mindlessness with your lover. You want to push everything out of your head that you’re thinking about, and you want to remember that you’re just with that person, and you want to feel the feelings, you want to feel the connection, you want to play off of each other.

When you’re truly releasing everything, not worrying about what you look like, or how it’s going, or any of those things, just really becoming unattached to any outcomes sexually, except being in the moment completely present with your partner. That kind of lovemaking is a kind of meditative state.

The same state that you’re in for meditation, which is called a theta state, a theta brainwave state, is exactly the same as when you’re in passionate love making. So what you’re doing when you’re making love, if you’re fully present and completely surrendered to the pleasure, you’re co-creating in the moment, that interplay, you are in a sexual meditation with your partner.

What the expanded orgasm practice is

Now, you can take that further through an expanded orgasm practice. This can be done to a man or to a woman, and it’s essentially giving and receiving where … I’ll give you the example of an expanded orgasm practice that my husband and I have done for over 12 years. It’s essentially a clitoral stroking technique, and it allows … In the case of my husband and I, this can be done, a man can do this to a woman, a woman can do this to a man, women can do this to each other, men can do this to each other. I’m just using a man/woman construct in this case. It’s a gender everything inclusive practice.

In this case, my husband is leading me and I am lying there and he is stroking my clitoris with his fingers in a certain stroke pattern that keeps my clitoris from getting worn out and overstimulated and therefore not wanting touch.

It’s such a light, delicate stroke technique, that he can take me … And I don’t go, I don’t do anything. He takes over my nervous system. We become conjoined in our trance state. I’m feeling him, he’s feeling me, I’m riding his ride, he’s stroking me into a series of orgasms that stack and get better and better and better over time. They get longer, they get more intense, he takes me on this orgasmic journey, and we are in a co-creative conjoined, theta, mindless, sexual meditative trance state together.

You can do that with a man by stroking his penis so that he gets right up to that edge of orgasmic pleasure. Now, many men will find that they will have to ejaculate, but you can actually train yourself to have full body, energy orgasms as a man, that feel as good as the ejaculatory orgasm you’re used to as a guy, that’s been promulgated in our culture as the standard. It’s not, it’s just what you learned. There’s way more pleasure to be had as a man as well. So you can actually have these meditative sexual energy states together.

Ari Whitten: Yeah, that’s awesome. Thank you. This is something I actually have never spoken about personally, but I’ve experienced what you’d talk about. Both of the things you’ve talked about, and so I can verify that both of those things are accurate.

Susan Bratton: Yeah, I’ll give you a copy of our Expand Her Orgasm Tonight program. That’s the one where we teach the clitoral stroking techniques, and all the things that a couple needs to learn to get into that trance state together, so you can find her spot, so you can do the strokes that take her up and up and up, and in a minute I’m also going to talk about parasympathetic, sympathetic nervous system and toggling that for expanded orgasmic pleasure.

Ari Whitten: Awesome, I’m sure she’ll be very happy about that.

Susan Bratton: Yeah, you bet. It’s a fantastic practice for couples. It adds to the requirement that if you’re going to have sex you always have intercourse. It’s nice to have non-penetrative sexual pleasuring as a couple, because then it kind of takes the pressure off because, for women, penetration’s a lot to ask sometimes.

What sexual healing is, and how you can use it to boost your sexual energy

Ari Whitten: Okay. So sexual healing. I guess we’re going to go right down this list of the six essentials. So talk to me about sexual healing. What is that, and how does sexual energy play into that?

Susan Bratton: Well, you know how when you feel sad feelings, when you have traumas, they get installed in your body and your emotional body and your enteric nervous system at a cellular level? And for women and men, for women, we hold a lot of it in our womb and in our G-area, in all of that tissue, and for men, men hold it a lot in their prostate, and in their perineal sponge area.

So, one of the best things that you can do is give your lover a lot of genital massages, internal genital massage. Stroking, kneading, just smoothing the tissue, cultivating engorgement, which is blood flow in the tissue. That helps release any stuck emotions. A lot of times when a woman first gets with a lover who can really give her intense orgasms, she’ll cry, she’ll cackle like a crazy lunatic, she’ll make funny, funny sounds like cats wailing at the night. All these things come out, these emotional releases come out when she’s stimulated in her genitals.

Same with a man when you stroke his prostate. A lot of times there’s a major emotional release that will happen for a guy. Plus, of course, it’s a really good, explosive orgasmic experience too.

So the goddess massage, the P-spot massage. These are really good ways to move emotional energy out of our bodies, to free us up, so that our orgasms can bubble up out of us. The other thing that’s real…

What the G-spot and the P spot are

Ari Whitten: Wait, sorry, let me interrupt.

Susan Bratton: Yeah.

Ari Whitten: So I think you said P-spot?

Susan Bratton: Yeah, P-spot, your prostate. For a man. They call that the P-spot, like the girl, has the G-spot for her Gräfenberg spot, which is, by the way, it’s not a spot, I actually call it a G-area.

It’s actually one of the pieces of erectile tissue in a woman’s vulva. She’s got the urethral sponge at the top of the canal inside her vaginal canal, and she’s got the perineal sponge that is between her rectum and her vaginal canal, and both of those are erectile tissue, as is her clitoral structure, which of course is not just the nub you see on the outside, it’s a shaft, it’s her little penis, it can get a hard on, it has two legs that go inside that you can stroke from up inside her vaginal canal, as well as the vestibular bulbs, which are those little punching bags you might have seen 3D renderings of what a clitoral system looks like on the internet. Those are also erectile tissue.

How stimulation of the erectile tissue can help you heal the traumas of your past

So, the big takeaway about this is that all that tissue is holding emotion, and the more that you stimulate it, the more that emotion can flow out of you, and heal the traumas of your past. Over time, those things stop coming out and your boat rightsizes again and you don’t have to worry that you’re going to cry every time you come. And sometimes it will well up if you’ve had traumatic events and you can release again, but the goddess massages are absolutely wonderful, for women especially.

So I would say that’s a big part of sexual healing, are those two things. But for men, I do want to talk about the two for men, oh and I didn’t finish the other point, which is engorgement. Women have as much erectile tissue up inside their clitoris and vulva as men do in their penises. Really, for lovers to get into these expanded states, it’s very important to get all the blood flow coming to all that tissue. You wouldn’t want to make love with a flaccid penis, so you shouldn’t expect your woman to make love with a flaccid vulva. I mean, it’s all kind of nerdy, but you’re a science dude like I am and I just like explaining how things work.

And for men on sexual healing, there’s shame. Oh my God, Ari, I’ve been working with men for a decade all over the world, from little remote islands where they still live in huts but they somehow get internet, to the most sophisticated guys on the planet who fly jets around. They just take jets wherever they go. This is my range of men that I work with and women too.

But with men, what I’m shocked about is how much shame men have about their desire, about that sexual energy that they have. Men have so much sexual energy, and so do women.

We tamp it down really early on women so they don’t feel so much of the pain of the loss as men do, but men have a terrible lot of shame about their desire, which is a shame. They also have a lot of penile atrophy, if they don’t get to make love a lot, their penis actually atrophies. If you don’t use a muscle, it’s use it or lose it. It’s muscular tissue.

How men can break their penises and how they can increase length firmness and ability to get and stay hard.

And they also break their penises. They break their penises with cock rings, they break their penises with cowgirl style wild women riding on them and not being careful enough.

Ari Whitten: So wait, sorry, break? Break your penis?

Susan Bratton: Well, they can get crimps in the corpus cavernosum.

Ari Whitten: Really? Wow. I always thought that was like a metaphorical thing.

Susan Bratton: It’s a for realsy thing.

Ari Whitten: Wow. Okay.

Susan Bratton: Yeah. So what’s great is that engorgement and these massages and [inaudible] orgasm dates and the stroking of the buried shaft of the penis in the body, all the way up through the glands on the top, at the top, at the end. All of that, working with that, suckling it with your mouth as a partner with a man who has atrophied penis, it expands all that tissue and brings all that engorgement back.

You can add girth, length, firmness, ability to get hard and stay hard to any man’s penis with just a bit of love and attention.

Ari Whitten: Mmm… Good.

Susan Bratton: I’ll take that!

Ari Whitten: Yeah, I’m going to maybe run some paid advertising to this podcast and spread that message around.

Susan Bratton: Exactly. So those are a lot of the things that you can do with sexual healing. Everything from feeling where you’re blocked and just moving your body around, to stroking the tissue and getting those emotions out.

Susan’s take on masturbation

Ari Whitten: Beautiful. So masturbation.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Ari Whitten: That is number four.

Susan Bratton: I’m for it.

Ari Whitten: You’re for it?

Susan Bratton: I’m for it.

Ari Whitten: Good. I’m sure there’ll be lots of people celebrating that and thanking God that you’re not going to tell them not to do it anymore.

Susan Bratton: I’m going to tell you to do it more. I swear to God, the more you masturbate … I mean obviously there’s a limit. You got to go to work and stuff.

How masturbation to pornography affects sexual energy

There people who masturbate way too much and that’s actually one of the issues is, that men now are masturbating to pornography so much that they’ve gotten dopamine addictions to it and they can’t hard in front of real women.

That’s just such a shame, and guys go through literally a withdrawal, like a withdrawal off of a narcotic withdrawal from not watching porn. They call that NoFap, N-O-F-A-P. You can google that and learn more if you suspect you might be one of those people who’s been raised on porn and didn’t realize it’s been ruining your sexual potential and your sexual energy.

Why vibration can be a turn on

Masturbation, there are some really great things about it. One, I want to talk about with regard to energy is vibration. So we know that vibration, sound energy, for example, is wonderful, especially women, but a lot of guys like vibration on their genitals. I actually have a Sonic Life whole body vibration system, it’s a $10,000 unit with a big platform two people can stand on that sends vibrations all the way up my whole body, and I can feel it in my yoni, I can feel it in my breasts, I can feel it in my fingers, everywhere. It just moves through your system.

A lot of people like to be rocked, rocking is really a good sexual energy for turn on. Vibration, vibrators are very good. So those kinds of things that make you feel good, that raise your sexual energy, vibration is one of them and then breathing while you’re doing it, really circulating that turn on. That expands your ability to feel a lot of pleasure, which is what we’re here for.

Ari Whitten: I’m curious about the device you’re talking about. Is it like a sound wave, or is it like mechanical vibration?

Susan Bratton: It’s not mechanical, it’s sonic vibration, it’s called the Sonic Life, it’s an amazing piece of equipment.

Ari Whitten: Interesting, I’ve never heard of that.

Susan Bratton: You’ll have to check it out, yeah. I like it better than the mechanical. I like the sound waves. If you’ve ever had someone play didgeridoo and aim it at your genitals, that’s another kind of sound healing, you can feel that harmonic resonance in your tissue. So you’re getting things moving again with vibration.

Why the notion that ejaculation considered the only right way of having an orgasm and why it should not be.

Another thing that is sexual energy with regard to masturbation is edging. We’re going to lead into energy orgasms, and one of the ways that you become a multi-orgasmic man, where you begin to support your ejaculation from your orgasm. Those two things aren’t connected. You do not need to ejaculate to have an orgasm, and when you ejaculate you don’t necessarily have an orgasm. They’re just two systems that guys were like, “Okay, these things go together, so this is how I’m supposed to do it.” It’s not actually true.

So you can begin to have full body orgasms, and one of the techniques that we teach in a program I have called Multi-Orgasmic Lover For Men, which I’ll also give you, is something called the me-breath. Which essentially is a way of breathing while you’re squeezing your … I always have to say this very … Pubococcygeus muscle, your PC muscle, in a certain way while you’re moving your sexual energy up your body so that it doesn’t come out your penis before you want it to.

So you have to be aware of your sexual arousal levels before you do this me-breath-technique, to give yourself non-ejaculatory, full body orgasmic pleasure. Then, of course, you can come at the end when you want to, but you can have a whole bunch of full body orgasms before you ejaculate and the party’s over.

The way you start is by understanding your sexual energy level. The most common thing that people call this is edging, where a guy will masturbate and he will take himself to a five, in turn, on, he’ll take himself to a six, and then he’ll back down. He’ll take himself to a seven and then he’ll back off, he’ll take himself to an eight and he’ll back off.

Then he starts to learn the me-breath-technique, and he can incorporate that in so that he can take his arousal down without stopping the stimulation. He can actually do the squeeze and the breathing, and there’s a pelvic relaxation piece too.

There are three pieces to the technique. So you can do it while you’re making love, you can practice while you’re masturbating, and then you can do it while you’re making love. So it feels effortless because you’re actually learning it while you’re rocking your pelvis a certain way, because that’s the relaxation you need, not to come too fast.

And so you’re managing your arousal level, which is your sexual energy. You become very aware of what’s an eight for you. Should you be doing the me breath when you’re at a six or a seven so you don’t get to an eight before you start to feel like you’re going to go over the edge and have an ejaculation and then the party’s over, as I said.

So these kinds of things are very interesting with regard to masturbation. Vibration, edging, knowing your arousal level, starting to run your ”turn on” up into your body.

Then, if you read another good book is Taoist Sexual Meditation by Bruce Francis. He has done a fantastic job cataloging a lot of Taoist and qigong sexual meditation techniques, as well as the energy cycling. So I talked about how a guy is bringing the energy … He’s moving it from his penis up into his body. He’s moving it into his belly and then he’s learning to move it to his heart so he can have heart-connected lovemaking. So his penis and his heart are connected to your yoni and your heart, right? So then you start getting that connection happening.

And then, he can move it right out the top of his head, he can actually have these braingasms where he just feels like he sees God with these full body orgasms.

That is understanding how to cycle and move that sexual energy in your own body. Women, of course, can do the same thing. Heartgasms are easier for women, partly, I believe, because our vagus nerve goes all the way to our genitals, but it stops in the abdomen for men. So men have to work a little harder to connect their genitals to their heart. They have to practice, that they have to feel the energy and really put their attention on it, where for women they’re starting out a little bit more heart connected in their genitals. Generally. Everybody’s different, Ari. I mean, everybody is so different.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. And I have to say, I would probably be actually quite skeptical of some of the stuff you’re talking about, but I was very into qigong and Taoist yoga in my early 20s. So I actually learned it when I was about 21 years old, so it’s been well over a decade that I’ve been playing with some of these-

Susan Bratton: Techniques.

Ari Whitten: … concepts and techniques, thank you.

Susan Bratton: Moving your energy.

Ari Whitten: Yeah.

Susan Bratton: Great.

Ari Whitten: And it works. So, I think for the males listening right now that are like, “Ah, this is a bunch of bullshit, you can’t do that.” They can’t comprehend the idea that you could have an orgasm without ejaculation or that you could do things with that internal cell energy and move it to different places in your body and experience different things from doing that.

It’s all real. This isn’t … Like I said at the beginning, this is kind of outside of the realm of randomized, controlled trials where we have lots of scientific data measuring all these things, but there have been millions of people, including myself…

Susan Bratton: For eons, for centuries and centuries.

Ari Whitten: … that have been experiencing these things and talking about them and I think they’re unquestionably real.

Susan Bratton: Yeah. As I said, the book by Cyndi Dale, The Subtle Body, Subtle Energy Body, and the book by Francis, the Taoist Sexual Meditation book, they do a lot of cataloging of trials, research, the science behind how all of these things work.

Ari Whitten: I like how you put your glasses back on just before the geek speak.

Susan Bratton: Well, what I really, I did that because I knew you were going to ask me the next question and I want to make sure that I answer all the things I wanted to say.

Ari Whitten: Yeah, for sure. I thought you have to put the glasses back on every time you start talking about sciency stuff and measurement. You’re like, “Okay, I’m going into this mode now.” So where are we? We’ve talked about …

Why masturbation to pornography can be unhealthy

Oh, actually, one more thing on the subject of masturbation. So you mentioned briefly about porn and the NoFap thing. So what’s the deal with that? Can you just kind of distinguish for me, you’re pro-masturbation in general? But not pro-porn?

Susan Bratton: Well, men love porn, they love to masturbate to porn. What I would say is if you’re going to masturbate to porn, try to spend … It’s kind of like consuming internet junk food.

Spend as much creating things as you do consuming things. In masturbation, spend as much time fantasizing in your own mind as looking at porn. Try to keep a balance there, so you can still get hard, stay hard, and manage your arousal levels yourself, without the need of a third-party crutch, which is basically a billion dollar business just there to make money off of you.

So be cognizant, be conscious, be aware that you’re a pawn in the world of porn. They’re using you.

Ari Whitten: So if you’re masturbating to porn, I guess you’re … It’s a super stimuli in the brain, and it’s sort of overstimulating those pleasure-

Susan Bratton: Your dopamine dumps, yeah.

Ari Whitten: So you’re desensitizing the system. Is that right?

Susan Bratton: Yes, yes. Yeah, and a lot of men deal with oversensitivity, and a lot of men deal with desensitization, and they have to come back to center.

Men deal with atrophy, they deal with shame. Premature ejaculation, stamina, is the number one issue men deal with. It’s very difficult because the other problem is that of course with women, 55 … It’s the orgasm gap in penetrative sex, in lovemaking, where it’s very easy for a man to come, 95% of the time or more, he can have an orgasm from intercourse, where maybe half the time a woman might be able to.

That’s one of the things I spend a lot of time on, is helping people, helping lovers bridge the orgasm gap so that they both have wonderful pleasure during lovemaking so they both want to have it all the time, instead of the guy having to talk the woman into it because she’s not having great orgasms from it.

But going back to the porn and the dopamine addiction, I want to talk very, very tiny little bit about post-coital dysphoria, which is another thing that happens for some guys. I think one of the reasons why the Taoist semen retention practices continue to live on, is if you think about all humans along a curve, there are some guys for whom, when they ejaculate, they lose energy. It’s like a dopamine dump for them and they just, they suffer from it.

They’re brain fog, they’re lethargic. Other men, it’s a great release for them, they rest for a minute and then they just feel great and they’re like less agitated. Other men who ejaculate, they feel more agitated or more depressed. They actually … A lot of men and women cry after sex.

So that’s why I think the Taoist practice of semen retention can be good for some men. It keeps their energy, their chi inside them, and Karezza, which is a practice of making love without having any ejaculatory experiences, can also be good for some people. Some people find that works for them. So everybody’s so different. You really have to honor what’s right for you.

How often you should ejaculate to stay healthy and have high energy levels

Ari Whitten: Okay, so I’m actually glad you brought that up because I meant to ask you that and then I spaced until you brought it up just now. So this concept around semen retention and not ejaculating, I know … I mean there’s so many different takes on that, and then there’s also science on it, so there’s kind of this intersection between, I guess, more spiritual or sexual energy philosophies, and then now we have this intersection with studies, for example on trying to figure out what’s the optimal ejaculation frequency for men for prostate health and risk of prostate cancer and so on.

There isn’t a lot of data, but there’s some in there. So I’m just wondering, if men are having non-ejaculatory orgasms, do you have any recommendations around frequency of when they should ejaculate? Should they not ejaculate in every sexual session with their partner or every masturbation session? I guess where’s the-

Susan Bratton: Where’s the sweet spot?

Ari Whitten: Yeah.

Susan Bratton: Yeah. It really depends on whether you’re one of those guys who gets depleted when you ejaculate or you feel great when you ejaculate. I think the idea … Any man along that spectrum would do well to learn how to have full body energy orgasms in addition to ejaculatory orgasms, so everyone wins.

For the guys who couldn’t imagine having sex without ejaculating, I’m not suggesting that they do. What I’m suggesting that they do is they learn how to manage their arousal levels, use the me breath technique to last as long as she wants them to, while having incredible, full body orgasms that trigger her orgasms.

This is really where we go into this idea of energy orgasms and closing the orgasm gap, where we call it the tuning fork technique. Hang on, I have my tuning forks, let me get them, they’re really cute.

How love making really is

So these are my tuning forks, and the way that it works is, if I hit this one against something and I get it near this one, now this one is ringing too. The idea is that the sound vibrations, the vibrations that come from this one, let this one pick up that sound.

That’s how lovemaking is. We are resonant beings, that’s why vibrations feel good, why sound healing is great, why we like breath and movement and why we like it when our guy goes mm-hmm. Do that one more time, Ari, I want to hear it.

Ari Whitten: Mmm.

Susan Bratton: I love that. Woo! So the idea is that when you’re with your lover and you’re trying to get more sexual energy when you’re tuned into her and you’re totally present and you’re having male multiple orgasms, when you’re like, “Ahh, babe, this is so good!”

And she knows she’s making you feel that good, that you feel that good when you’re with her, it’s going to trigger her orgasm. She’s going to come because you’re coming.

So if you wait until the final ejaculatory orgasm to have that orgasm, when you could be coming throughout your lovemaking time, you’re just leaving a lot of incredible sexual pleasure on the table. So that’s why I love these tuning forks, are they really get you understanding those mirror neurons and how we resonate and vibe off each other.

If you’re able to control your ejaculation, if you have an ejaculatory choice, you can come when you want to using the me breath technique, and so you decide that you want to have a whole bunch of orgasms, you’re going to be triggering … I mean, after the first or the second or the third one you have, she’s going to be coming. She needs you. She needs to see you go first as the man and have all that pleasure with her.

Then that just like opens her up to incredible orgasmic abundance. Then at the end, you guys can have one simultaneous, fabulous orgasm at the end where the guy ejaculates and you can take a little nap and you can give her a little hug and you can bounce out of bed. If you’re the kind of guy that doesn’t want to come, don’t come. You can still have amazing sex with energy sex.

How women can feel when their partner doesn’t ejaculate

Ari Whitten: Beautiful. So, actually, one quick question on that final point. If a man doesn’t ejaculate during sex, I’m curious how women perceive that. I think some women perceive it differently in my experience. Some women who have never … were unfamiliar with the concept that a man can have an orgasm without ejaculation, maybe get weirded out by it, or…

Susan Bratton: They feel like they didn’t do their job.

Ari Whitten: Exactly. Yeah.

Susan Bratton: Also we like that semen cocktail. You give us an injection of all kinds of wonderful, potent hormones and things that make a woman feel very good, calm us down, connect us to you. So yeah, in some cases it’s kind of a bummer not to have that experience, but also you’d be surprised that the flip side is that if your partner is like ambivalent as to whether he ejaculates every time he’s with you or not, when he’s like, “I’m fine to come or not, it’s no big deal, don’t feel the pressure to do it. I’ll come if it’s my time and I won’t if it’s not.”

Then all of a sudden she has the ability to say, “Okay, I’m done, I’m not feeling it, can we stop?” And he’ll be like, “That’s totally fine, babe if you’re done you’re done.” So instead of it being this thing where she kind of has to wait it out until he finally comes, like, “Hey, finish it up.” There’s a lot of that problem in the long-term monogamous sex bedrooms of the universe too.

I think ultimately ejaculatory choice, a male multiple orgasms are the way to go for all men who want to be in the top 1% of lovers because then you have every option available to you instead of only being stuck with one thing.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. Awesome. So we are … So we’ve covered energy orgasms, we’ve covered masturbation, we’ve covered sexual healing, we’ve covered sexual meditation, we’ve covered sexual energy.

Susan Bratton: We’re doing well, Ari.

Ari Whitten: We’re kicking ass.

Susan Bratton: We’re doing a good job together.

How you can channel your sexual energy

Ari Whitten: So let’s talk about lovemaking.

Susan Bratton: Yeah, let’s talk about it. The very first thing that I want to talk to you about, and this is an energy sex technique, do you remember when you really, really were turned on by someone and you just felt like … and she could feel it too? You remember that?

Ari Whitten: Of course.

Susan Bratton: Well, that is sexual energy. That’s that turn on, desire, that lust, that ardor, that passion, that want for someone. You can actually channel that energy out your penis and into her body. You can think about your penis as being like a beam of sensual light you’re penetrating her with. With a little practice, she’ll be able to feel when you’re doing it even if you don’t tell her that you are.

One of the things that I really like about this is that you can be sitting across the table from each other out at dinner and you can be energetically making the hottest, naughtiest, passionate love to her, and she’ll just be like, “Baby, cut it out. Come on. This is too much. Stop it, it’s too much!” You’ll get her wiggling in her seat to where she can feel it.

That’s an area of sexual energy or energy sex that I think is very hot, is the no touch kind of sex that is possible.

The true act of love making and how it impacts your sexual energy

The other kind of energy sex that I think is the best energy sex is the I’m feeling you feeling me, you’re feeling me feeling you sex. This is a technique that Dr. Patti Taylor, who I also publish, she’s the one that created Expand Her Orgasm Tonight, for me, to teach couples how to have this clitoral stroking and penis stroking practice of expanded orgasmic pleasure.

She has a free ebook called Touch for Rapture. She teaches you how to touch, how to really feel a person, and how to make sure that they can feel you feeling them. What you want to do is you want to set up that energetic loop, that connection where just like you were kind of energetically making love to her across the table, now she can feel you feeling her.

Not only that, but you’re touching her for your pleasure. You’re not touching her to do her. This is a big thing. It’s being present with your lover, and touching her for your pleasure, having her touch you for her pleasure. For example, a lot of women are a little reticent to go down on a guy, and I think the biggest reason that they are is that they simply don’t know what to do. They feel like there are probably some techniques that are required, that are going to take him over the edge.

When you roll back from that and you say, “It doesn’t matter if he comes or not because he has ejaculatory choice. He can come whenever he wants to. That’s nothing you need to worry about. You just take your pleasure with him.” You take your pleasure by enjoying his penis with your mouth, your tongue, and your lips … I’m just using this as an example, where you just enjoy the feeling of it. You use his tool for your pleasure.

When you start to think about things in that frame and say, see what it takes to turn yourself on by just playing with his penis, with your hands, with your mouth, whatever, with both, whatever you want to do. All of a sudden you’re getting a level of sexual energy starts to happen that doesn’t happen when you’re in the frame of mind of, “I’ll do you and you do me and we’ll both get off,” because there are three kinds of sex.

The act of role play and how people often ruin the sexual energy by acting like porn stars

There’s the role play, and that’s what a lot of people do. They do what they think they’re supposed to be doing. They might have seen something on porn, this is what a lot of women are telling me now, that guys are treating them like they’re porn stars and it sickens them. They want to be romanced and made love to. They want passionate lovemaking.

And men equally are saying to me, “Why are women acting like porn stars? Why can’t they just connect with me? Why are they doing what they’re doing, why can’t they just like kiss me deeply and really be affectionate and warm?” So there’s that role play thing. It’s great when you’re really good lovers and then you add role play. It’s not great when you start out in role play.

The second thing is what most people do, and that is we’re going to rub our genitals together, it’s friction. I’m going to get off on you, you’re going to get off on me, we’re going to do the things that get us off, and we’re going to be done.

The beauty of sexual connection in love making

The third kind of lovemaking is that conjoined trance state, that orgasmic, sexual connection to each other in real time. That interplay of lovers, where not only are you connecting to each other, but you can connect to spirit, to God, to source, to Gaia, to all living and other things. Whatever you want to call that. When people talk about rapture of sex, what they talk about is losing yourselves so completely, the ego goes away. And you’re just playing off your pleasure together and you’re not doing anything to each other. You are taking your pleasure, feeling your pleasure, and you’re just being in pleasure.

So I think that that is the kind of energetic lovemaking that we all are dying to have. To me, that’s what I do for a living. I have the map to that territory. That’s the place I play. Those are the techniques that I like to teach. It’s how do I get there? I want that. That’s what I want. Then I’ll tell you that’s the place to go.

How women can pick up on a man’s attraction to her through subtle facial expressions

Ari Whitten: Yeah, for sure. You know I just had a couple personal thoughts. You reminded me of a book that I read … Gee, it’s probably over 10 years ago. It’s a very obscure book, I think it’s not for sale publicly anymore anywhere. It was by a guy named Paul something, who was in the kind of gating community.

Susan Bratton: Was it Paul Johansson? And it was like a big, almost like a big tome about sex?

Ari Whitten: No. So it’s related to that concept that you were talking about of the no touch lovemaking. It’s a very … This is a little kind of out there of a concept, and the guy’s name I think …

Susan Bratton: Was it Orgasm on Command or Erotic Hypnosis, was it Mark Cunningham or Lloyd Lester? Because they both do the-

Ari Whitten: No, I know who Mark Cunningham, no it wasn’t those guys. This guy has a site called, or a brand called Omega Male or something to that effect. He wrote this book, very unique book called Get Your Send On. It was based … This guy was an MD, so he was very science based. It was based on the work of this one researcher named Paul Ekman, who-

Susan Bratton: Oh yeah I know Paul. Facial Action Coding System.

Ari Whitten: Exactly. So like microexpressions…

Susan Bratton: So Darwinism.

Ari Whitten: Yeah. So like microexpressions of the face…

Susan Bratton: Yeah, Lie to Me was the Fox TV show they built off that.

Ari Whitten: Right. So this guy Paul whatever his last name is.

Susan Bratton: Paul Ekman. Oh, Paul, the other Paul.

Ari Whitten:    Yes. The other Paul wrote this book called Get Your Send On, based on these micro expressions of the face, and he started to like … He almost did like a coding of all of these scenes from movies and famous actors, so like Brad Pitt and George Clooney and all these different actors, and capturing scenes of their faces in movies when they’re flirting with women.

What he developed was this idea that your thoughts as a man, what you’re thinking in your head, is communicated through very subtle expressions, very subtle changes in the micro expressions of your face. And women can pick up on that.

Susan Bratton: Oh yes, we can.

Ari Whitten: Unconsciously. It’s not that they look at it and they think, “Oh, that little tweak of the eyes or the wrinkles of the eyes or next to the mouth or whatever.”

Susan Bratton: [crosstalk] smile or whatever.

Ari Whitten: Yeah, it’s not conscious, but basically, this idea that he developed was if you think dirty or flirtatious thoughts, women pick up on that and they’re attracted to it. I would imagine, depending on how the man looks, maybe if he looks kind of creepy this wouldn’t work very well, but in my experience it’s true.

I mean, like I said, this is an out there scientific concept. It may not be like any sort of psychic thing going on, it may just purely be the micro expressions of your face, but I think that women are extremely attuned to picking up on a man’s vibrations and picking up on what he’s thinking and feeling. I think on a way deeper level than most men can comprehend.

After I read that book I spent like six months or a year playing with that concept, and I found it just to be kind of an amazing thing to see how well women actually picked up on those things. So I just, I’m fascinated with that concept of the no touch lovemaking, and just kind of the way the man feels, how it can make the woman feel, kind of like the tuning forks.

Susan Bratton: Yeah. I love that too.

How lack of information about sexuality influences the sex life

Ari Whitten: So, beautiful. Yeah, this has been awesome stuff. I think everyone probably realizes that if they integrate a little bit more awesome sex and energy orgasms into their life that they’ll probably be more energetic, more vital, passionate people in general, and happier people probably too.

Susan Bratton: Definitely. Yeah, one of the things that I think people struggle with is getting enough information, getting enough feedback in the bedroom with their partner. Sometimes women are afraid … It’s not always women, but it’s most common that women are afraid to give men feedback, they’re afraid you’ll hurt their ego. Or they feel like, “Well, I don’t know what I want, I just know this isn’t it.” So they shut down. Because remember women generally don’t watch a lot of porn, and so they don’t really know what’s possible sexually. They’re watching movies and things like that, but most of the media depicts sex in such lame ways. There’s no, “Wow, I didn’t know we could do that.”

One of the things that I put together recently was something called The Sexual Soulmate Pact. It’s a technique for partners, and it’s an agreement between lovers that allows you to open up the lines of communication really, really easily. I have that as a gift for your viewers and listeners, your fans, and followers. It’s from my newest book, Sexual Soulmates, which has just hit Amazon number one bestseller, so I’m happy about that.

Ari Whitten: Awesome, congratulations.

Susan Bratton: Thank you, it takes a lot of work to get there. Only took me over a decade. But it takes a lot, you know sexuality’s a vast space, as is what you do, helping people build their energy with so many variables and inputs and all of us being so different and our cultures and everything. It’s just a deep and wide area. But in working with thousands of people over a decade, as I said, from all over the world, I’ve really tested out a lot of techniques and strategies. And what I put in Sexual Soulmates were what I thought are the six essentials to connected sex. What is it that gets you … What’s the map to that territory I was talking about where the world falls away and you’re just deeply satisfied and connected and you feel like you’ve come home through your lover?

The soulmate pact is a foundation to getting there. It’s kind of like the wheels of the bus. You’ve got to have an agreement for feedback, so I have that for you.

Some amazing gifts from Susan to you

Ari Whitten: Awesome.

Susan Bratton: I also have … Yeah.

Ari Whitten: I just want to add for everyone listening, I’ll put the link to get that in the show notes for this podcast episode, which you can get at

Susan Bratton: Excellent. I like that URL, Ari. Yeah, so the soulmate pact, I give you The Sexual Soulmate Pact itself in a downloadable book, and then I give you three videos that explain the pact. There are two sides to the agreement. Then I talk about Stacy, who had really hot hotel sex. 48 hours worth of the hottest hotel sex ever, using The Sexual Soulmate Pact with a new boyfriend. So I think that’s a really good gift for people who want to take that very first step in having more intimate connection.

Ari Whitten: Just real quick, was that 48 hours in a row? Did she die of dehydration?

Susan Bratton: No, it was just a weekend lovemaking experience she had with her new boyfriend David, and she told me all about it and she was like, “You know what made it great? You know what made it the most incredible? I did The Sexual Soulmate Pact with him almost right away and he was like, ‘Okay baby, I’ll do it.'” She was like, “It was so great how we just did it every time and I got so comfortable with him so fast.”

So that’s number one. Number two, I have two presents for you. That is the other one is called How to Be Instantly Hotter and Sexier. It’s for men and women, single and married, both of these things are. It’s the three things that you can do to instantly amplify your sexual desirability and your sexual desire. So I’ll give you that as well and Ari will give you a link to both, and they’re with my compliments. I mean, I just give and give and give because I got plenty of programs people can buy, I’m in no hurry, you just take your time. I’m here when you need me. I’ve got another 50 years of life left in me and I would rather be doing nothing than helping people have hot sex.

Ari Whitten: Wow. Beautiful.

Susan Bratton: So take your free gifts and we’ll go from there.

Rounding up

Ari Whitten: Awesome, I love it. Again, you can get that … All these links for all of the gifts Susan’s going to give you at the link for the podcast here, for the show notes,

Susan Bratton: I love that.

Ari Whitten: Susan, this has been awesome. Thank you so much, it was really a pleasure, and you just packed so much content in that and made it like tactical and got into a lot of specifics, which I really appreciate, and I know everyone listening appreciates. It was just such a pleasure chatting with you.

Susan Bratton: I thoroughly enjoy you and I think you’re just absolutely terrific and it was a joy to spend time with you, Ari, I am the lucky one. Thank you for giving me your platform to connect with more people to help them have more passion.

Ari Whitten: Awesome, thank you so much Susan. Bye.

Susan Bratton: Bye.


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